# bushblackout.com and Pals: What a bunch of losers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 20, 2005, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817 "2005-01-20T23:38:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/101 "2005-01-23T15:00:24Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Damn right this shit matters. That’s why I’m so pissed at you people. You had one simple task: unseat the Republicans. You had the organization. You had the infrastructure. You had the money. You squandered everything. Rather than bringing middle America a message about individual liberty and inobtrusive government — your classical positions — you brought them sewer rats like Michael Moore, the self-professed anti-Democrat. You completely disrespected the people who actually vote, and made your entire appeal to a generation of passive-aggressive slackers who attented your rock-the-vote rallies for nothing more than the free music. You made yourselves into the self-proclaimed enemies of God, for cryin’ out loud. And now, as you lick your wounds, you don’t even have the fucking brains to figure out that you fucked up. And you call other people stupid. Lib, you get a lot of shit for being a bit of a lunatic, and quite frankly, often times you are a bit of a lunatic, but the above paragraph is spot on, and I suspect the only people who will argue with it are those not mature enough or introspective enough to be able to approach the subject from the position of “What went wrong and how can we fix it” and not “We were right! How could we lose, and how stupid is everybody else for not agreeing with us?” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/102 "2005-01-23T16:34:52Z")
Gee whiz, if only we had the maturity and introspection to pander to bigotry and demonize a harmless minority. If only we had the introspection and maturity to cook up the worst foreign policy debacle in a generation, and then lie through our teeth about it, while slandering the patriotism and loyalty of our critics. No thanks, you keep it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/103 "2005-01-23T22:40:06Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Gee whiz, if only we had the maturity and introspection to pander to bigotry and demonize a harmless minority. If only we had the introspection and maturity to cook up the worst foreign policy debacle in a generation, and then lie through our teeth about it, while slandering the patriotism and loyalty of our critics. > > No thanks, you keep it. Thanks to your pathetic effort, I reckon we’ll \*have \* to keep it. If you think you took the moral highground over them in the campaign, you’re sadly mistaken. You slung shit like a chimpanzee in a fertilizer factory. You demonized a fucking _majority_ in a fucking _election_. Not real fucking brilliant. Your foreign policy solution consisted of imaginary leaders who met with Kerry in secret, and allegedly gave him their support. You gave the impression that the UN would run the US. You _gave_ Republicans the words “liberty” and “patriotism” because you didn’t like them anymore. You pounded and pounded on bullshit like the five minutes in Florida while ceding to them every core American principle. You found yourselves in the ridiculous position of defending socialism and attacking capitalism. Recall Hillary’s promise to “take things away” from us. And even now, you’re still in denial. Making up things to bitch about. Still clueless. Growing smaller and more insignificant by the day. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/104 "2005-01-23T22:47:46Z")
**Lib** , how’s progress coming on electing a Libertarian candidate or getting out of a two party system? By the way, nobody gave any words to the Republicans. Modern politics have become, in large part, an example of memetic combat. Your tendency to anthropomorphize, and make fallaciously fungible, the ‘sides’ of the political spectrum gets in the way of an honest discussion on the issues. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/105 "2005-01-23T23:20:28Z")
> [@Mondo Derango](#): > > …Rather than bringing middle America a message about individual liberty and inobtrusive government — your classical positions — you brought them sewer rats like Michael Moore, the self-professed anti-Democrat… Michael Moore is a “self-professed anti-Democrat”. How, then, pray, are the Democrats to blame for bringing forth Mr. Moore? Didn’t he bring himself forth, you know, by making a movie? That great hulking gobs of people paid good money to see? Were they herded into the theaters at gunpoint by DNC stormtroopers? > [@](#): > > …You completely disrespected the people who actually vote, and made your entire appeal to a generation of passive-aggressive slackers who attented your rock-the-vote rallies for nothing more than the free music… You know these people? You attended these rock-the-vote rallies and questioned your fellow attendees as to their motives? Forgive my skepticism, but I rather imagine not. I rather imagine your opinion is another nugget of disinformation, swallowed whole with a big chaser of Kool-Aid. > [@](#): > > …You made yourselves into the self-proclaimed enemies of God, for cryin’ out loud… No, no, you really must dissolve the Kool Aid in water _first_, Lib, snorting it leads to brain damage. Q.E.D. You can point out to me quotes from the Atheists for Kerry Rallies? Here, take my hanky, wipe the foam from your lips. Then you can show me where and when, precisely, the Democrats declared themselves Satanists. And more, from the ever calm, ever reasonable **Lib** > [@](#): > > …You slung shit like a chimpanzee in a fertilizer factory… . Your gift for metaphor is failing rapidly. Simile. Simian. Whatever. > [@](#): > > …You demonized a fucking majority in a fucking election. … Before they even manifested as the fucking majority in a fucking election? Prescience? Clarovoyance? You don’t mean the previous election, certainly. (Have you got a new favorite word, **Lib**? Or are you going for the tough, manly image?) > [@](#): > > …Not real fucking brilliant. Your foreign policy solution consisted of imaginary leaders who met with Kerry in secret, and allegedly gave him their support… Our foreign policy solution rested primarily on one point: get rid of the morons who were destroying our foreign policy. Simplistic perhaps, but its seems to have evaded you. You are far more interested in presenting an O’Reilly sound bite as fact. > [@](#): > > …You gave the impression that the UN would run the US… This despite the fact that Kerry explicitly stated, in just so many words, that such was not his policy. Other than an outright denial, what does it take to convince you? Should Kerry have threatened to open an artillery barrage on the UN headquarters? Would that have been a sufficient expression of hostility to assuage you? > [@](#): > > …You gave Republicans the words “liberty” and “patriotism” because you didn’t like them anymore… They stole them. They wouldn’t give them back. Really, **Lib** , from what orifice are you pulling this stuff? > [@](#): > > …You found yourselves in the ridiculous position of defending socialism and attacking capitalism… Gotta give you that one. Who can forget Kerry’s moving pangyrics extolling the virtues of Marx, Engels, and Eugene V. Debs. Actually, I’m afraid I _have_ forgotten them. But you have them at your fingertips, no? Do share them, won’t you? > [@](#): > > …Still clueless. Growing smaller and more insignificant by the day… When we shrink down to Libertarian Party insignificance, let us know. Did Nader outpoll them this time again? How about the Vegetarian Party? Did they beat out the Anti-Vivisection League in a tie for ninth place? You’re worrying me here, **Lib**. You been taking care of yourself? You gone from harmlessly cranky to blithering and berserk. I don’t know if you need more psychoactive chemicals, or less, its hard to tell. But you’re losing it, buddy. Big time and in public. Just a tip from yer pal, **Luc’**. Get a grip. Soon. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/106 "2005-01-23T23:27:14Z")
Let’s try this metaphor. As I see it, the Democratic party is akin to IBM typewriter sales and service people. You have an excellent product, and at one time it was the best that could be had. Demand has shifted to the PC, and instead of looking within, reinventing your business model, and bringing a better product to market, you call people names if they don’t buy your stuff, still offering the same old Selectrics and Executives. A successful salesman does not sell, he creates in his prospect the desire to buy. You folks have a choice-continue to sell the old models, or build what the market will buy. The choice is yours. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/107 "2005-01-24T00:37:00Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Let’s try this metaphor. As I see it, the Democratic party is akin to IBM typewriter sales and service people. You have an excellent product, and at one time it was the best that could be had. Demand has shifted to the PC, and instead of looking within, reinventing your business model, and bringing a better product to market, you call people names if they don’t buy your stuff, still offering the same old Selectrics and Executives. Like Heinlein wrote: analogy is always suspect. Some of us who seem to find ourselves outside the Bush camp, and thus on-the-left in this debate, don’t see it in terms of values that can be changed. See, this election really was about moral values. Some of us hold that war should only be used as an absolute last resort, that the loss of life, misery, suffering, and lasting devestation is an immoral act if undertaken without ironclad justification. Some of us believe that government should not be be opaque, that openness is a desireable and necessary trait in a leader to prevent abuses of power. Some of us feel that civil liberties should not be restricted in the name of security and that maintaining freedom and liberty in our own nation is an ethical and societal imperative. Some of us feel that the health and welfare of our children and our children’s children’s children will depend on the health of their ecosystem, the quality of the air and water, the ultimate availability of non-fossil fuels; that leaving the world a better place after we leave it is what we’re here’s to do. Some of us feel that there should be accountability in government, that cronyism and obfuscation and turning a blind eye to one’s own abuses are not acceptable responses of a civilized society in the modern global community. And many of us have our own reasons and convictions. Now, what would you have us give up? I do think the question has become one of message. Of memetics. The folks in the Republican Party have, to a large degree, sucessfully orchestrated and played along with a large segment of the ‘right wing’ media in this country. Ultimately any Democratic party nominee will either have to be able to gain massive grassroots support or be able to maintain a fitter meme. Perhaps a little of both. You are now two cents richer. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/108 "2005-01-24T01:06:14Z")
Thank you **Finn**. Now, take those values you’ve just espoused, put together a workable plan for implementing them (don’t just say that you have a plan), describe that plan in a fashion that Joe six pack will understand, and show it as part of the whole picture-not just a segment to be fit in somehow later on. Finally, get a candidate to deliver the message in an effective fashion. Someone with the speaking presence of LBJ or Reagan. Do that, and I’ll give serious consideration. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/109 "2005-01-24T08:20:12Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Do that, and I’ll give serious consideration. Shouldn’t the validity of the principles rather than the viability of the platform be the prime factor in deciding on what is best? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/110 "2005-01-24T10:34:46Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Shouldn’t the validity of the principles rather than the viability of the platform be the prime factor in deciding on what is best? In a perfect world, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/111 "2005-01-24T10:39:48Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > **Lib** , how’s progress coming on electing a Libertarian candidate or getting out of a two party system? The latter part of your stupid question answers the first part of your stupid question. Are you familiar with the ballot access laws perpetuated by the Demublicans and Republicrats? Are you familiar with the rules of the CPD? I didn’t think so. Meanwhile, your party is always automatically on the ballot in every state. It automatically receives federal loot to subsidize its activities. It already has a large (albeit diminishing) cadre of elected offices. And yet, with all these advantages, you managed to accomplish the same thing the Libertarian Party did. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/112 "2005-01-24T10:56:46Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > And yet, with all these advantages, you managed to accomplish the same thing the Libertarian Party did. The Democrats gained 0.3% of the popular vote, and had their candidate arrested straight after the election? Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/113 "2005-01-24T11:00:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Michael Moore is a “self-professed anti-Democrat”. How, then, pray, are the Democrats to blame for bringing forth Mr. Moore? Didn’t he bring himself forth, you know, by making a movie? That great hulking gobs of people paid good money to see? Were they herded into the theaters at gunpoint by DNC stormtroopers? You invited the slob to your convention. You even asked him to give a speech. > [@](#): > > You know these people? You attended these rock-the-vote rallies and questioned your fellow attendees as to their motives? Forgive my skepticism, but I rather imagine not. I rather imagine your opinion is another nugget of disinformation, swallowed whole with a big chaser of Kool-Aid. Voting is as voting does. They didn’t. > [@](#): > > No, no, you really must dissolve the Kool Aid in water _first_, Lib, snorting it leads to brain damage. Q.E.D. You can point out to me quotes from the Atheists for Kerry Rallies? Here, take my hanky, wipe the foam from your lips. Then you can show me where and when, precisely, the Democrats declared themselves Satanists. Even now there is a Pit thread from the leftistas complaining about Bush’s invocation of things Godly in his speech. When you do that on a national scale, you lose votes. Fortunately for you, your slickest leader, Frau Clinton, grasps all this, and invoked God six times in a recent speech. > [@](#): > > And more, from the ever calm, ever reasonable **Lib** And of course, it was ever calm and ever reasonable of you to paint your entire opposition with the brush that they “pander to bigotry and demonize a harmless minority”. > [@](#): > > Your gift for metaphor is failing rapidly. Simile. Simian. Whatever. Simile. > [@](#): > > Before they even manifested as the fucking majority in a fucking election? Prescience? Clarovoyance? You don’t mean the previous election, certainly. (Have you got a new favorite word, **Lib**? Or are you going for the tough, manly image?) You mean you think Karl Rove is psychic? You don’t exactly have to Google all day to find out things like the vast majority of Americans are Christian, or that the vast majority of Blacks oppose gay marriage. > [@](#): > > Our foreign policy solution rested primarily on one point: get rid of the morons who were destroying our foreign policy. Simplistic perhaps, but its seems to have evaded you. You are far more interested in presenting an O’Reilly sound bite as fact. At least now you admit that your task was simple: unseat the Republicans. That’s what I said already. You failed in your task. > [@](#): > > This despite the fact that Kerry explicitly stated, in just so many words, that such was not his policy. Other than an outright denial, what does it take to convince you? Should Kerry have threatened to open an artillery barrage on the UN headquarters? Would that have been a sufficient expression of hostility to assuage you? Assuage me? I voted for the son of a bitch. He should have made clear what he meant when he first spoke. He spent most of his campaign backtracking and attempting to clarify things he said. You know that soundbites come out of campaigns. You have to use your brain to devise them. > [@](#): > > They stole them. They wouldn’t give them back. Really, **Lib** , from what orifice are you pulling this stuff? So long as you pretend that reality isn’t out there, you’re going to fail. Forty-five years ago, you had a candidate who won, saying that there was no price too high to pay to preserve freedom. He slashed the 70% tax rate on the wealthiest Americans. He used government as a means to secure the rights of its citizens. In short, he was a liberal. And he was the last one you put in office. > [@](#): > > Gotta give you that one. Who can forget Kerry’s moving pangyrics extolling the virtues of Marx, Engels, and Eugene V. Debs. Actually, I’m afraid I _have_ forgotten them. But you have them at your fingertips, no? Do share them, won’t you? If his balls had been half the size of Hillary’s he would have said he did not support her call to seize people’s property. > [@](#): > > When we shrink down to Libertarian Party insignificance, let us know. Did Nader outpoll them this time again? How about the Vegetarian Party? Did they beat out the Anti-Vivisection League in a tie for ninth place? What a pathetic rejoinder. It’s like an honor roll student making an F on a test, and then pointing at the remedial class and saying, “When the retards get an A, let me know.” The Libertarian Party is a political joke. Using it to mitigate your failure is sheer desperation. > [@](#): > > You’re worrying me here, **Lib**. You been taking care of yourself? You gone from harmlessly cranky to blithering and berserk. I don’t know if you need more psychoactive chemicals, or less, its hard to tell. > > But you’re losing it, buddy. Big time and in public. Just a tip from yer pal, **Luc’**. Get a grip. Soon. Yeah, blah blah blah. When you find your position indefensible, you start in on the meds crap. Two words: you lost. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/114 "2005-01-24T11:06:10Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Yeah, blah blah blah. When you find your position indefensible, you start in on the meds crap. Two words: you lost. At some point, **Lib** you’re going to have to consider this question seriously. Again. And it’s probably best not done in public. Again. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/115 "2005-01-24T12:13:37Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > The latter part of your stupid question answers the first part of your stupid question. Sometimes I hear Dennis Miller’s voice when I read your text. Sometimes, Professor Farnsworth’s. Right now, I hear Professor Farnsworth channeling Dennis Miller. Odd, that. Ahem. In any case, my question was designed to illustrate that a majority of the nation has been cut out of anything resembling actual representation. Your desire to blame vast swaths of people for what is, at best, a complicated system, forced me to ask that question and I’ll rephrase it: You write full of storm and thunder and decry entire groups of people with nary a care for proof or coherence or veracity. And yet, what have you done to change things? What have you done to get an electable candidate in the whitehouse? What have you, you who’re so damn ready to blame everything on everybody else, what have **you** done? > [@Liberal](#): > > Are you familiar with the ballot access laws perpetuated by the Demublicans and Republicrats? Are you familiar with the rules of the CPD? I didn’t think so. I like you, you’re silly. Are you aware of the absolute screaming, thrashing, earth-shattering irrelevancy of the Libertarian Party? There seem to be two parties right now, and I’m attempting to find some way to make a third party viable or reform one of the two existing parties. You’re… I’m not sure what you’re doing. But you sure do like judgin’ other folks for the state of American politics. > [@Liberal](#): > > Meanwhile, your party is always automatically on the ballot in every state. I’m a registered Libertarian. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/116 "2005-01-24T16:10:11Z")
> [@Inaptly Yclept Liberal](#): > > You invited the slob to your convention. You even asked him to give a speech… Yeppers. In case it has escaped your attention, this “vile sewer rat” produced a blockbuster of a documentary/propaganda piece. Which motivated unknown millions of people to activate and, more importantly, send money. Acknowledging this would irritate people who hate him, to be sure. But the number of people who actively hate him and hate Bush simultaneously is pretty small. Being, for the most part, you. Or perhaps a better answer might be shorter: Zell Miller, who demonstrated conclusively that rabies is not invariably fatal. > [@](#): > > …Voting is as voting does. They didn’t… But that’s not what you said. You said that the people who attended the concerts only attended for the music, you claimed to know this. Of course you don’t, but that doesn’t slow you down any. The demographic that these people were part of did not vote as much as might have been hoped, that much is fact. But you claim that a subset of that demographic, those attendees, had motivations you could divine. You don’t know that those people at those concerts didn’t vote, there’s no way you could know that, short of a god-like prescience you have not otherwise demonstrated. Evidence, **Lib**? Got any? You might as well claim that all the attendees at the Dem Convention came for the funny hats! > [@](#): > > …Even now there is a Pit thread from the leftistas complaining about Bush’s invocation of things Godly in his speech… Very different thing. We complain of his hypocrisy, of his warping of Jesus’ message from Avatar of Peace to stern advocate of corporate tax reform and prophet of entrepeneurship. And again, that’s not what you said. You said the Democrats declared themselves anti-God, I challenge you to show any such statement, and you cannot do so. Instead, you offer a distraction, further underlining the weakness of your statement. > [@](#): > > …And of course, it was ever calm and ever reasonable of you to paint your entire opposition with the brush that they “pander to bigotry and demonize a harmless minority”… Well, they did, didn’t they? Unless you take seriously the claim that gay marriage is a plot to undermine the “sanctity of marriage”, whatever the hell that is. The claim is false, they are innocent of such skullduggery, and you damn well know it. What else is it, then? > [@](#): > > …At least now you admit that your task was simple: unseat the Republicans. That’s what I said already. You failed in your task… God, this is like arguing with a surrealist. I say our foreign policy can be reduced to a simplicity, and you answer “A fish!” Look in that quote and point out to me where I said this made our task simple. Take your time. Better still, ignore this and pretend you’ve won. > [@](#): > > …He spent most of his campaign backtracking and attempting to clarify things he said… Of course he did. He had to. His opposition spent a goodly portion of its time lying about what his positions were, he had no choice. What was he to do when Bush bloviates about not asking the UN for a permission slip to defend America, agree? Are you going to make some sense any time soon? > [@](#): > > …So long as you pretend that reality isn’t out there…. Again, I make a statement, you counter with a lecture on another topic altogether. Are you having some difficulty in determining the topic, or do you simply prefer to pretend that any random sets of typed words amounts to a rebuttal? > [@](#): > > …If his balls had been half the size of Hillary’s he would have said he did not support her call to seize people’s property… Too which hardly anyone paid any attention to. And your devotion to private property as a governing principle of the first water is more political science than it is politics. Yes, I suppose, if you look at it in the right light and squint, taxation is “seizure”. But it’s a bit much. He didn’t say anything about Hillary because he didn’t have to. You’re damn near the only person who noticed. > [@](#): > > …When you find your position indefensible, you start in on the meds crap… When I said that, I had entirely forgotten your publicly discussed history of medication. It’s the kind of thing I might have said to anyone as a suggestion that they were not being entirely rational, as one might say “What are you smoking?” In light of your own admitted difficulties, I can see how this might be misunderstood, and I apologize. I do believe your argument is irrational, I don’t believe it has anything whatever to do with your need for medications, or lack thereof. But, point of fact, I don’t find my position indefensible, I’m having no difficulty at all. > [@](#): > > …Two words: you lost… Two more words: so what? If the Packers beat the Vikings 21-20 by dint of a last second field goal from the 35 yard line, do you say “Packers Crush Vikings in Rout!” and demand that the head coach be lynched? It was a squeeker, and they won. So we should abandon a strategy that very nearly won in favor of a policy that has the full weight of your support behind it? Other than the simply awesome respect and regard we have for you, what have you to support such a claim? Finally, a point: “you” did this, and “you” did that is silly rhetoric. I am not a Democrat, I am located on the conservative wing of the extreme left, I vote with the Democrats because its the best I can get. If the day should come when I need to carefully parse postitions in order to dertermine if the Dem or the Pubbie most accurately reflects my philosophy, I will be in danger of Death by Giggling Fit. Rest asssured, the DNC is not guided by my wisdom. Truth be told, I’m not even sure that they ought to be. I’m pretty damn smart, but not _that_ damn smart. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/117 "2005-01-24T16:43:56Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Thank you **Finn**. > > Now, take those values you’ve just espoused, put together a workable plan for implementing them (don’t just say that you have a plan), describe that plan in a fashion that Joe six pack will understand, and show it as part of the whole picture-not just a segment to be fit in somehow later on. > > Finally, get a candidate to deliver the message in an effective fashion. Someone with the speaking presence of LBJ or Reagan. > > Do that, and I’ll give serious consideration. I think the problem is the current system actually weeds out the best candidate. To get someone elected on all the points **Finn** mentioned would be a pipe dream, mostly because the masses don’t care about those sort of things. Flashing lights and loud sounds get their attention, and the people willing to sink to that level end up in the White House. The only way to beat flashing lights and loud sounds is with higher volume and more brightness, and so a vicious cycle is started. There’s no way to fix the system without tearing it down, and that won’t be happening for another 75-100 years. /Seriously thinking about leaving this shithole. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/118 "2005-01-24T19:17:31Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I’m a registered Libertarian. Oh, you poor dolt. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/119 "2005-01-24T20:02:36Z")
That the only thing you’re going to respond to? And don’t worry, if I save enough box tops and send them in they’ll make me as sane and stable as you. Oh boy, an end to doltishness. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817/120 "2005-01-24T22:13:50Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I think the problem is the current system actually weeds out the best candidate. To get someone elected on all the points **Finn** mentioned would be a pipe dream, mostly because the masses don’t care about those sort of things. Flashing lights and loud sounds get their attention, and the people willing to sink to that level end up in the White House. The only way to beat flashing lights and loud sounds is with higher volume and more brightness, and so a vicious cycle is started. There’s no way to fix the system without tearing it down, and that won’t be happening for another 75-100 years. > > /Seriously thinking about leaving this shithole. The present system seems to favor the one with the deepest pockets, the best sound bites, and the best PR. Personally, I wanted McCain in 2000. Yes, a candidate being elected on **Finn** ’s platform would be a pipe dream, but rather than dismissing it as impossible, figure out how to make it happen. You say that the masses don’t care, but I believe you’ve sold them short. High volume and flashing lights do NOT sell me-I mentally shut it off, just as I do those who spew venom and demonize people owing to how the election went. You’ve got almost four years. As I said before, the package has merit. Take the full laundry list and pick out the points with the broadest appeal. Distance yourselves as a party from the fringe groups that are ruining your appearance. Select good pitchmen and an even better front man, and I believe you’ll be pleased with the result. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushblackout-com-and-pals-what-a-bunch-of-losers/285817.md?page=7)