# Bushbots, since I can't ask for your brains, get yer asses in here... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 14, 2005, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669 "2005-01-14T05:24:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/181 "2005-01-18T02:22:01Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > That’s just fucking insane. I mean, batshit, out-of-touch-with-reality crazy. This is exactly the sort of hysterical over-reaction and exaggeration I’ve been talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/182 "2005-01-18T02:30:40Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > What the fuck is wrong with you people? I mean, seriously, _what the fuck_ is it with you lot? Why are you perfectly content backing an Administration who thinks nothing of invading countries at their whim while lying through their teeth about their reasons? > > You enjoy [pointless warfare?](http://www.carnegieendowment.org/npp/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=16382) > > Do you get off on [torturing human beings?](http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-vpmag134112751jan13,0,6477635.story?coll=ny-viewpoints-headlines) > > Anything to do with [butchering children?](http://www.robert-fisk.com/bloodied_iraqichild.jpg) > > Mayhaps you support [blatant lies](http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/blatant_lies.html) > > My country right or wrong? Do you even have a [clue](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Schurz) about what you’re talking about? > > You think you’re[gonna get rich](http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0501/S00097.htm) from this war? > > [Two guys kissing](http://www.freddyandeddy.com/menkissing/gallery01/mkpic14.jpg) is worse than [this](http://www.robert-fisk.com/)? > > Again, just what the fuck is wrong with you braindead people? I’ll consider all excuses up to, and including, the one that makes most sense…you were dropped on your heads as babies and such an unfortunate incidents produces heartless operators… > > Still and all, just in case I needed to say it, fuck you all…with a rusty instrument. Sideways even. > > Selfish motherfuckers or fools. Willing to works with the latter, I openly _loathe_ the former. > > Here’s why: [Fear and voting in Baghdad](http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/207765_fisk14.html) > > Here’s hoping/wishing for better times and the end for the need of rants such as my own. Trite – tripe? -no doubt to many of you, but then again, I choose to live by my OwnRules: quit killing, start caring. > > Let the derision begin, but fair warning’s in order: you’re not dealing with someone from Peace&Love crowd, no flower-child here. Nonetheless, in a nutshell and as per your own Fearless Mislear’s dare, I am against you. OTOH, no need for grandiosity nor dares. No doubt you can roll right through me. Just sayin’… don’t expect any flowers from moi . > > Sure you want to take us on as well? Musn’t forget little grey cells of all calibers, working united, are often the most powerful of weapons. > > Beyond arrogance, weapons and the capacity to end us all…what else have you got? Other than lies and misdirection of course… And to think you impeached your last President for a blowjob and are currently defending the most crooked/inept Administration of all…no disconnect there. No siree, Bob, none at all. > > [Don King]Only in America[/Don King] Yawn, what don’t you have against anyone in the current administration Redfury? The cleaners? If you don’t do anything about it, quit ya bitchin. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/183 "2005-01-18T02:31:04Z")
> [@edwino](#): > > Yes, the public should have woken up by now. But the majority of Americans haven’t had their life adversely affected, yet. But with every month of war and every new civil liberty restricted, these numbers will pick up. Your comments got me thinking last night. I can date the shift in my opinions based on debates I get into on overseas trips. For me, a lifelong Democrat who is reasonably moderate, the breaking point was during the buildup to the Iraq War. I can imagine that many to the left of me caught on before then; I can imagine that the majority to the right of me are still beginning to catch on. > > The Jewish scientists left before (Einstein and Teller come to mind). Schrodinger left in 1933, returned to Vienna, but was forced out by the Nazis. Only a handful of scientists were involved in active collaboration – Planck and (according to some) Heisenberg actively worked against the regime from the inside. > > In the US, it would be much more severe. American science depends heavily on recruiting the best and brightest from around the world to come work here, not almost exclusively on homegrown talent like in Germany. If America was no longer a desired destination, the decline would be steep and fast. Right now, American science has no problems, and still has more to offer me than anywhere else in the world. The NIH has paid for my education and I intend to stick around to at least give them a decade of work. But if immigration laws and restrictions become tighter (a surprising number of grad students I know have had serious difficulties with visas, and it is becoming noticeably tougher for them to come here and stay here), if the government starts to interfere in more research, and if the priorities of the country take away funding from governmentally funded scientific research, the United States will be quickly overtaken. Grad student and postdoc quality and quantity would decline, expatriates would repatriate. > > If biomedical and academic research goes, pharmaceutical research will follow. That’s a lot of dollars put into the university system, and it could be quick – a decade or less – before Americans are faced with not being educationally dominant. What is happening in our primary school system could rapidly start to happen to our universities and medical schools. Soon after, Americans will be faced with the prospect that most innovation are coming from the best schools not in America. The best doctors, engineers, and scientists, will all be foreign and working abroad. Hence, the cultural fear and challenge that I think may save this country. Sounds like what my husband (MD, PhD, biochem researcher) says. I hope you’re right, but it’s a small comfort on a cold night, IMHO. > [@World Eater](#): > > Yes, but by the time these people wake up, it’ll be too late. Then they’ll go “yeah you were right”, but that’s after they’ve been calling us “crazy hippies” the whole time we’ve been fighting against the system. It’s always “too late”, isn’t it? If you consider the lives lost, and the lives broken, in the interim. Nothing to hang onto but hope for the future. Amazing to me too, but that’s always been enough for people to carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/184 "2005-01-18T02:36:00Z")
> [@Banquet Bear](#): > > …you have, many times explained your reasons for supporting the war. Can you explain your support for the way the occupation has been run ? Was it really the best the United States could do for Iraq? Of course it wasn’t the best way to have run Iraq, but whining about it now is hardly going to fix the situation, what we have to do now is stay focused on the task at hand, reconstruction of the Iraqi security and economic forces in which the people of Iraq can be safe and prosper, if we dwell on the past we lost focus on the mission, and thats what will ultimately lead us to failure. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/185 "2005-01-18T03:05:27Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > This is exactly the sort of hysterical over-reaction and exaggeration I’ve been talking about. Oh, come now! You positively delight in provoking, one can almost picture you rehearsing in front of the mirror, looking for that gruff, straight-ahead Bill O’Reilly attitude, as though a pretence of candor made fact out of horseshit. You’re just as easy as any of the rest of us girls, here under the lampost, on the corner. You want to put on airs, well, fine, but just don’t pretend you’re not just as much a slut as anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/186 "2005-01-18T03:44:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You’re just as easy as any of the rest of us girls, here under the lampost, on the corner. You want to put on airs, well, fine, but just don’t pretend you’re not just as much a slut as anyone else. Speak for yourself, sweetie! I make as much in one night as you do in a month. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/187 "2005-01-18T03:53:27Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Of course it wasn’t the best way to have run Iraq, but whining about it now is hardly going to fix the situation, what we have to do now is stay focused on the task at hand, reconstruction of the Iraqi security and economic forces in which the people of Iraq can be safe and prosper, if we dwell on the past we lost focus on the mission, and thats what will ultimately lead us to failure. Well, that’s fine, **Ryan**. But there’s a problem with that, and one we refuse to allow to swept under the rug. And that is: if we put our efforts into cleaning up this godforsaken mess, and somehow manage to make a silk purse out of this sow’s ear, the authors of this debacle will claim that such was their plan all along. They will attribute a miracle to their sober analysis and calm probity. Or, as is more likely, when this shitstorm passes and the cost is counted, they will try and claim they were hindered by our pessimism, crippled by our lack of faith. They’ve done it before, you know. “I’ve seen their ways too often for my liking…” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/188 "2005-01-18T03:56:31Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Speak for yourself, sweetie! I make as much in one night as you do in a month. 😉 Ooooh, he can be _such_ a little bitch, sometimes! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/189 "2005-01-18T04:02:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, that’s fine, **Ryan**. But there’s a problem with that, and one we refuse to allow to swept under the rug. And that is: if we put our efforts into cleaning up this godforsaken mess, and somehow manage to make a silk purse out of this sow’s ear, the authors of this debacle will claim that such was their plan all along. Just remember that such _has_ been our plan all along! Your lame attempt at discrediting our efforts so as to allow you to continue to claim the high ground in the (likely) event it turns out you are wrong is quite amusing, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/190 "2005-01-18T04:10:33Z")
**SA** : You’ve got a house on fire, exploding, tornado ravaged, taken over by gunmen, and you’re telling us that the most likely result is that everything works out just fine. Past a certain point optimism **is** unfounded. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/191 "2005-01-18T04:23:05Z")
Well, if your plan is to lure some _amazingly_ stupid gunmen into a blazing house on the verge of explosion, well, maybe. But do we have to wait inside for them to show up? ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/192 "2005-01-18T04:25:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Past a certain point optimism is unfounded. You just have to know where the optimism comes from. Bush supporter optimism comes from **power**. That’s it. Why don’t they care that the army said they had way too few troops to stop looters from taking nuclear material for potential dirty bombs? Why don’t they care about increasing hostility towards us, partially as a result of our own torture of people we want on our side? Because they have power. Power trumps any and all mistakes. Power protects you from consequences. Who cares how poorly the Iraq war is being run, when our power protects us from any consequences? How does Iraq having democracy or not personally affect a Bush supporter? It doesn’t. So what does it cost to be optimistic? Nothing. Bush used this by cutting taxes during wartime, emphasizing that it would cost nothing for his supporters to be optimistic. If I were a cynic, I might suggest that this is a major reason why he wouldn’t hold back on tax cuts in the face of a genuine reason to do so (the war). ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/193 "2005-01-18T04:27:56Z")
**Starving Artist** I’m a critic of this administration’s actions in Iraq. Yet, I know what it would take for me to think that things are going well. 1. Elections go well without violence. 2. Violence decreases and casualty rate drops. 3. Iraqi police force and military able to take more responsibility. 4. The US is able to reduce troop numbers without an appreciable increase in violence. What would make you think that the situation in Iraq is on the wrong track? That it is getting worse, not better, and that the administration’s actions aren’t making it better? Full-on civil war? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/194 "2005-01-18T04:30:57Z")
**FinnAgain** , if such as you describe were the case, I’d admit you have a point. But such is not the case. Was is messy! People resent foreign armies in their midst. Insurgencies vie for power or attempt to defeat the will of their opponents. People get hurt. People die. It happens in _every_ war! Those on your side see these things happening and declare, as I said before, that the sky is falling. Those on my side realize that these things are an unavoidable part of war. We expect them, we are not shocked when they happen, we know they are temporary, and we know that it’s necessary to go through them in order to acheive a good much greater than the cost of the battle. And, unfortunately, wars sometimes _have_ to be fought. The fact that awful and chaotic things happen during them doesn’t mean they are failures. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/195 "2005-01-18T04:38:48Z")
> [@](#): > > The fact that awful and chaotic things happen during them doesn’t mean they are failures. The fact that the civilian leaders of our government ignored military advice, fell for the lies of Chalabi despite the CIA telling them he was a liar and a criminal, and sent in woefully unprepared and insufficient forces is evidence of failure of the highest order. Remember, “You go to war with the army you have…” Of course, since the administration has admitted there was no imminent threat, you might wonder why they didn’t wait until they had sufficient, prepared forces. You might. But you won’t. Not as long as it doesn’t affect you, and hey, look at those pretty unsustainable tax cuts which are going to cost us even more in the long run! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/196 "2005-01-18T04:48:24Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > **FinnAgain** , if such as you describe were the case, I’d admit you have a point. > But such is not the case. Was is messy! People resent foreign armies in their midst. Insurgencies vie for power or attempt to defeat the will of their opponents. People get hurt. People die. > It happens in _every_ war! These two concepts are not, as you would make them, dichotomous or mutually exclusive. War is hell, yes. There are also certain factors in this war which make it look highly unlikely that any Iraqi government that we prop up will remain once we’re gone. Even if there are insurgents in ever war in the history of mankind, in this war, all the evidence points to them eventually getting the upper hand. Especially when you factor in the fact that US troops aren’t there for the duration, and, supposedly, they’re not there as conquering occupiers either. There will come a day when we have to, finally, give the Iraqis their “freedom”. And unless there is a miracle between now and then, the result will be a bloodbath. Regardless of your unfounded optimism. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > Those on your side see these things happening and declare, as I said before, that the sky is falling. Come on **SA** , this is silly even for a strawman. Don’t you think that those who’re anti war don’t run out wildly into the street screaming “The sky is faaaaaaaaaaling!!!” But, instead, point out that civilian government in Iraq is currently impossible. That they don’t have effective police or military forces. That they will most likely be taken over by Iranian (and Saudi) backed millitants once we withdraw our support. That Iraq has helped galvanize our opposite and swelled their ranks. That… > [@Starving Artist](#): > > Those on my side realize that these things are an unavoidable part of war. Killing civilians is an unavoidable part of war. But, that doesn’t mean that any time you kill a civilian, or a bunch, that it’s necessarily an unavoidable part of war. Angering some enemies is a part of war, but that doesn’t mean that torturing Iraqis and having pictures of it released for propaganda is a necessary and unavoidable part of war… In other words, yes, war is a mess. But that doesn’t mean that whatever goes wrong you can say “War! Ah-hah, I called it! No backsies! It was war, and thus it’s okay.” > [@Starving Artist](#): > > We expect them, we are not shocked when they happen, So the administration planned on not securing weapons, or you just expect them to fuck up and you’re not shocked by how mind numbingly incompetent they are? Y’all expected to be met with flowers and free money, and there were some crowds (sometimes increased in ‘size’ via trick photography), but those are gone now. Most Iraqis want us gone. Did you expect that too? If, as you suggest, the ultimate wisdom ~dies from rolling eyes~ of the adminstration foresaw this, why send so few troops? Were they planning on failing, or failing at planning? > [@Starving Artist](#): > > quipt we know they are temporary, How is your ‘knowledge’ that things will get any better in Iraq any more valid than someone’s ‘knowledge’ that, next thursday after lunch, Jesus is going to stop by Iraq and make everything cool. In other words, what evidence do you have **besides your support of the war** that the war is worth supporting as-is and isn’t fucking up? I mean, you can accept that even a war that has to be fought and should be fought and is moral and just can still be a royal clusterfuck, right? > [@Starving Artist](#): > > and we know that it’s necessary to go through them in order to acheive a good much greater than the cost of the battle. Yes yes, machiavellian and all. But how do you **know** not believe, not think, not hope, not pray, not have faith in, how do you know that your outlook is likely. Because, quite frankly, the proponderance of evidence is not on your side. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > And, unfortunately, wars sometimes _have_ to be fought. The fact that awful and chaotic things happen during them doesn’t mean they are failures. It’s not about chaos, it’s about the degree. It’s about the fact that we can’t get a handle on it. It’s about the fact that we’ve shown no ability to contain, control, or eliminate it. It’s about the fact that it’s only gotten worse, and shows no signs of stopping. The house is on fire **SA**. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/197 "2005-01-18T04:58:11Z")
Shhhh! Don’t give it away! All we gotta do is wait till we lure the bad guys into the house with us, and then we’ll have them trapped! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/198 "2005-01-18T05:10:25Z")
> [@Nightime](#): > > You might. But you won’t. Not as long as it doesn’t affect you, and hey, look at those pretty unsustainable tax cuts which are going to cost us even more in the long run! I know you think you’ve stumbled upon a key insight to us hard-hearted, uncaring war proponents…but you haven’t. I haven’t been responding to all this “power” and “doesn’t affect them” stuff because I know it would be pointless. Instead, I’ll just say that you’re wrong. To me, you are simply exemplifying the difference between the right and the left. I’ve said before that I think one key difference between liberals and conservatives is that the conservative will say “I want this; is it right?”, whereas the liberal will say “I want this; therefore, it’s right!” Liberals, by and large, shift their stances on things based on how it affects them and what they desire. Conservatives, by and large, believe a certain thing is either right or wrong and they stick with it regardless of their own personal preference. If we feel the war is the right thing to do, we still think so even if its impact on us is harmful. It has nothing to do with feeling insulated by “power,” and it has nothing to do with whether or not we’ve been harmed by the war. It has to do with sticking to what we feel is right simply because it’s the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/199 "2005-01-18T05:30:09Z")
Your reply is a non sequitur, as I didn’t make any claim about the war being right or wrong in my post. A reminder: "The fact that the civilian leaders of our government ignored military advice, fell for the lies of Chalabi despite the CIA telling them he was a liar and a criminal, and sent in woefully unprepared and insufficient forces is evidence of failure of the highest order. Remember, “You go to war with the army you have…” Of course, since the administration has admitted there was no imminent threat, you might wonder why they didn’t wait until they had sufficient, prepared forces." Where in this post did I say anything about the war being right or wrong? Everything I mentioned was about how the war is being run. You completely dodged the entire issue. > [@](#): > > Conservatives, by and large, believe a certain thing is either right or wrong and they stick with it regardless of their own personal preference. You believe a certain thing is either right or wrong, and you stick with it regardless of the facts. You illustrated this with your last post: I talked about how the war was being run, and you were literally incapable of seeing it as anything other than “war bad”. You’ve got blinders on. And while you may believe that not being affected by the war doesn’t matter to you, I am afraid you are wrong. The kind of blinders you have on are only sustainable when there are few ill effects on you personally. When the mistakes being made start coming back to bite you, you will suddenly realize how blind you have been. “I supported believing Chalabi, rushing in unprepared forces despite no imminent threat, letting nuclear material be looted, torturing Iraqis… what the hell was I thinking!?” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/200 "2005-01-18T05:36:51Z")
Boy, you guys just love that pose, don’t you? Where you present yourselves as stern realists, unafraid to face the ugly truth, unlike the wimpy liberals. I haven’t met that many real cynics in my time. But I never met one who didn’t think of himself as a hard-headed realist. Funny thing is, they generally create the very conditions they claim to deplore, and then declare them unavoidable. Thats usually just before the blame it on us. “Well, we would have won in Viet Nam, but the liberals made us fight with one hand tied behind our backs!” Remember Grenada? You remember why that was necessary? Because the Cubans were building airfields big enough for Russian intercontinental bombers to land there! And we bought it! We actually went for it! Hell, Clint Eastwood even made a fucking _movie_ about our bold military adventure facing the crack Cuban bulldozer driver commandoes! Seems like all they have to do is start pounding the drums, and our brains turn to shit right in our skulls. I can’t, for the life of me, think of a more pointless and inane military adventure…and nobody said a word. We congratulated ourselves on rescuing those brave medical students from some unnamed horror, and showed that clip of one of them kissing the ground after getting off the airplane over and over and over… The tradition of cooking up some bogus threat to justify a meaningless carnage has a long, long history. How many Grenadians died during that “war”? You haven’t the slightest idea, have you? So there might, after all, be some silver lining to this shit storm. Maybe, God willing, we will learn to be a bit skeptical when they start pounding those damn drums again. At least that would be something. But it won’t be worth it. Not by a long shot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669.md?page=11)