# Bushbots, since I can't ask for your brains, get yer asses in here... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 14, 2005, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669 "2005-01-14T05:24:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/21 "2005-01-14T11:15:39Z")
Ain’t it pretty obvious what the answers to those questions are going to be? I.e.: Don’t know, don’t care, shut up. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/22 "2005-01-14T11:23:51Z")
> [@Banquet Bear](#): > > Can I ask you-what is your opinion on the state of the occupation? Not pleased. We’ve invested too many dollars and too many souls in a land where the average citizen is most interested in killing someone who doesn’t share his religious beliefs. > [@](#): > > What are your opinions on the CPA using Heritage Foundation interns found off the internet to run Baghdad while the British used experienced diplomats instead? Not being aware of Certified Public Accountants involvement, I cannot intelligently comment. > [@](#): > > What are your thoughts on the missing $8.8 billion dollars? How long do you think its acceptable for a country to go without procedures for recording deaths? What about not securing the Ministry of Information immediately after taking over the country? Was the way the occupation handled the best the United States could do? Hindsight being what it is, Mr Bush senior already has admitted that it was a mistake to have not taken Saddam out of power in Gulf War I. Personally? I’d have rather taken over the country, and given our investment, annexed it as a US territory. Call it the state of Iraq, and add a star to the flag. Turn on the oil pipeline, tell OPEC to piss off, and call it a day. I know it wouldn’t be that simple, but you asked, so I answered. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/23 "2005-01-14T11:40:31Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Not being aware of Certified Public Accountants involvement, I cannot intelligently comment. …I can only assume your joking-anything else would just be really scary-but I assume you know that the CPA stands for the Coalition Provisional Authority? Anyway-to catch you up, guess what! There is a thread here on the Straightdope about it… [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=257719&highlight=heritage+foundation+iraq](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=257719&highlight=heritage+foundation+iraq) > [@](#): > > Army Reserve Sgt. Glenn Corliss, who worked with the Ministry of Industry and Minerals, said staffers were so inexperienced and rotated out so quickly it was difficult for them to act on anything. In November many state-owned factories had been shut down for want of electricity, a potentially explosive problem because it left thousands jobless. Corliss had found private firms willing to invest in portable generators for the most critical factories. All they wanted was a letter of credit saying that they would be paid for their services. No one in the budget office would make a decision on it for months and Corliss finally gave up in March when he returned to the United States. “I wanted to pull their heads off oftentimes,” Corliss said. > > Brad Jackson, a lieutenant colonel in the Army Reserve who worked with the CPA, said the budget team regularly asked other ministries at the last minute to produce information that would take hundreds of people half a year to gather. > > “There were a lot of people who, being political science majors, didn’t know what an income statement was, who were asking the impossible. . . . That was giving us ulcers, quite frankly,” he said. …so now you know a little bit more about the situation-what are your thoughts? > [@](#): > > Hindsight being what it is, Mr Bush senior already has admitted that it was a mistake to have not taken Saddam out of power in Gulf War I. Personally? I’d have rather taken over the country, and given our investment, annexed it as a US territory. Call it the state of Iraq, and add a star to the flag. Turn on the oil pipeline, tell OPEC to piss off, and call it a day. > > I know it wouldn’t be that simple, but you asked, so I answered. …so you have no thoughts on the 8.8 billion dollars, on not securing the Ministry of Information, or the lack of process to record deaths in Iraq. You know you’re doing a damm good job to keep the stereotype of the “bush bot” alive, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/24 "2005-01-14T11:43:08Z")
Toldya. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/25 "2005-01-14T11:45:56Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > Toldya. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TastesLikeBurning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@TastesLikeBurning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TastesLikeBurning)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/26 "2005-01-14T12:49:39Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > **Not pleased. We’ve invested too many dollars and too many souls in a land where the average citizen is most interested in killing someone who doesn’t share his religious beliefs.** > > Not being aware of Certified Public Accountants involvement, I cannot intelligently comment. > > Hindsight being what it is, Mr Bush senior already has admitted that it was a mistake to have not taken Saddam out of power in Gulf War I. Personally? I’d have rather taken over the country, and given our investment, annexed it as a US territory. Call it the state of Iraq, and add a star to the flag. Turn on the oil pipeline, tell OPEC to piss off, and call it a day. > > I know it wouldn’t be that simple, but you asked, so I answered. Bolding mine. Which country are you referring to here(USA or Iraq), because the lines of distinction tend to be a little bit on the blurred side these days? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/27 "2005-01-14T13:30:33Z")
The answer is quite simple, **RedFury**. The current Republicans are perhaps the first “party before country” party we’ve encountered. A win for these people is getting their way. That is to say, getting Bush’s tax cuts was a win, regardless of whether it resulted in positive outcomes. Doing what they want with Iraq is a win, regardless of whether things end up better. As long as they don’t suffer personally, it’s a win! Party Before Country Republicans. You may not be so up on domestic American issues, but this party (the current Republicans) is showing a strong a desire to dismantle ethics protections that they championed only a decade ago. Their minions apparently don’t blink. Party Before Country Republicans. Is the current war justified? Who cares – we support our party, and criticizing the war would be bad for the party. Is it costing us billions of dollars? Not a problem – it ain’t going to the democrats or their supporters. Are American soldiers getting killed? Yup, and that’s their job. Our job is to put a magnet in their name on the back of the car. Are Iraqis being killed by our actions? Who? Who can keep up with all these other people we’re supposed to care for? They would have been dead anyway, or living in Iraq. We’re optimistic about their chances – they look pretty good from over here. These people are petty and hold a fucking grudge. They couldn’t stand the 1990’s, the fact that Clinton was hugely popular and successful. Getting to do what they want is the bottom line, not what actually happens as a result. (Look at the fact that, with all the things that have gone wrong or been done wrong, nobody has suffered any consequences. The only people who have been dismissed have been those who are not team players – those who do not put their party before their country. Others are given medals of freedom!) I used to be unable to comprehend German citizens in the 1930’s. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/28 "2005-01-14T13:37:32Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > The answer is quite simple… A pre-emptive strike: Why do you hate God and America so much, **Hentor**? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/29 "2005-01-14T13:43:34Z")
As God said on _Joan of Arcadia_… “There’s no answer I can give that would make any sense to you.” You don’t want to listen. You want to attack. So there is no point in having a serious discussion with you. [Go here if you want more answers.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284561) ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/30 "2005-01-14T13:48:43Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > What the fuck is wrong with you people? I mean, seriously, _what the fuck_ is it with you lot? Why are you perfectly content backing an Administration who thinks nothing of invading countries at their whim while lying through their teeth about their reasons? What is the long list of countries that we invaded at our whim? Iraq and Afghanistan and…?. Granting that you are not bright enough to see that Saddam should not have been left in power in Iraq, what the hell was capricious about Afghanistan? > [@](#): > > My country right or wrong? Do you even have a [clue](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Schurz) about what you’re talking about? What the fuck are you blabbering about? The only time that quote comes up around here is when some stupid lefty wants to play at cleverness. Much like the fucktarded _1984_ references when some earnest lefty wants to sound educated, or the even more fucktarded ‘Why do you hate America’ that comes soley from the left. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/31 "2005-01-14T13:54:20Z")
It’s too easy, too convenient, to just write off Bush’s supporters as “Bush-bots.” I don’t think of Bush voters that way because they’re not robots; many of them are intelligent, principled people whose political make-up is too complex to dismiss in a simple, stereotyped description. I like all the Bush supporters; they’re good people. (Yes, I like you, too, \*\* Shodan\*\*, just because you annoy the dickens out of me on occasion doesn’t make you any less likable.) I’ve met **Bricker** and **Dances with Cats** and they’re both great guys. I’d trust both of them with my money or my life. So how can I reconcile my respect for them personally and my utter shock at their support for such an incompetent regime?My current thinking is that their devotion to the tenets of American conservative thinking has blinded them to the realities of what Bush has actually done. **Starving Artist’s** post about “optimism vs. pessimism” is key; to him beleiving in America and being a patriot means supporting the president; people who don’t support the president are therefore not patriotic. He forgets that sometimes the highest degree of patriotism is speaking truth to power, in this case exposing the lies and chicanery of a corrupt regime. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/32 "2005-01-14T13:58:55Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > You don’t want to listen. You want to attack. So there is no point in having a serious discussion with you. > > [Go here if you want more answers.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284561) There’s a major fucking difference between me and you. You’re whining that I don’t want to listen, I want to attack you. My attack, if there is one, is kinda verbal, and it ain’t likely to kill you. From the thread you linked to: > [@cmkeller](#): > > I’ll take the bait. Here’s why I voted for Bush: > > 1. I agree with his neo-con vision of what it will take to make terrorism an unpalatable option for the young Muslim. This Arab anger at the West and at the US in specific which led to 9/11 is fed by a sense of hopelessness which the U.S. had nothing to do with. By deposing the Taliban and Saddam Hussein and planting democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan, we stand some chance of seeing Muslims realize that when they are politically empowered, they can improve their lives and the USA doesn’t stand in the way of that. Certainly, it’s a risk, but not doing it certainly didn’t win us friends, did it? > [@BF](#): > > Ditto what cmkeller wrote > [@ivlass](#): > > I believe the war on Iraq and the war on terror are one and the same. Despite everything, he has not waffled, he has not flip-flopped. He truly believes that he is protecting America. You wanted to attack Iraq and actually kill Iraqis. You didn’t want to listen to the weapons inspectors, or pretty much anyone apart from Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/33 "2005-01-14T14:05:48Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > It’s too easy, too convenient, to just write off Bush’s supporters as “Bush-bots.”… You’re rapidly running out of credibility, sport. I ain’t accepting any more admonitions from people who were pro-war fanatics ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/34 "2005-01-14T14:06:29Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > What the fuck is wrong with you people? I mean, seriously, _what the fuck_ is it with you lot? Why are you perfectly content backing an Administration who thinks nothing of invading countries at their whim while lying through their teeth about their reasons? … And blah blah blah. Thank you. You’ve confirmed my perception that Bush bashers are basically just a bunch of hate-filled, shitbrained assholes. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/35 "2005-01-14T14:09:16Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > What is the long list of countries that we invaded at our whim? Iraq and Afghanistan and…?. Granting that you are not bright enough to see that Saddam should not have been left in power in Iraq, what the hell was capricious about Afghanistan? The invasion of Aghanistan was necessary, but what you miss, **Brutus** is that Bush didn’t go far enough. He ought to have pacified the country and, yes, engaged in nationbuilding–fixing the infrastructure, rebuild the schools and hospitals and roads, given Afghan farmers incentives **not** to grow opium–_before_ he hared off to topple Saddam. And while I agree that gettign rid of Saddam and his vile sons was in itself a good thing, we didn’t take the steps necessary to fill the vacuum of authority left after Saddam’s ouster. Our troops sat, handeds folded, while criminals ran amuck and wrecked Bagfdad. We ensured the comfort of the American occupying grulers while leaving the people of Baghdad without electricity and water. If we had repaired those things in the first days of the occupation to show concern for the residents’ welfare, we would have earned more cooperation form them in pacifying the place. We didn’t consult the religious authorities or show respect to tribal leaders who could have helped us keep the peace. Worse, still, we’ve treated the Iraqi people with contempt, inspiring more and more of them to take up arms against us. Replacing tyranny with chaos is not a positive result. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/36 "2005-01-14T14:10:22Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > You wanted to attack Iraq and actually kill Iraqis. :rolleyes: Whatever. You guys talk amongst yourselves. There’s nothing I can say that would make you change your mind, so I’m not going to strain the hamsters. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/37 "2005-01-14T14:12:13Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > You’re rapidly running out of credibility, sport. > > I ain’t accepting any more admonitions from people who were pro-war fanatics Well, given that I was a pro-war supporter (not “fanatic”) who saw the error of my ways, maybe I know more than you how to reach others who have not yet seen through the Bush regime’s lies. Of course, if you have no interest in educating and converting people to your POV, and just want to spew hate and venom at people who don’t agree with you, I apologize for spoiling your good time. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/38 "2005-01-14T14:15:47Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > It’s too easy, too convenient, to just write off Bush’s supporters as “Bush-bots.” I don’t think of Bush voters that way because they’re not robots; many of them are intelligent, principled people whose political make-up is too complex to dismiss in a simple, stereotyped description. > > I like all the Bush supporters; they’re good people. (Yes, I like you, too, \*\* > Shodan\*\*, just because you annoy the dickens out of me on occasion doesn’t make you any less likable.) I’ve met **Bricker** and **Dances with Cats** and they’re both great guys. I’d trust both of them with my money or my life. > > So how can I reconcile my respect for them personally and my utter shock at their support for such an incompetent regime?My current thinking is that their devotion to the tenets of American conservative thinking has blinded them to the realities of what Bush has actually done. **Starving Artist’s** post about “optimism vs. pessimism” is key; to him beleiving in America and being a patriot means supporting the president; people who don’t support the president are therefore not patriotic. He forgets that sometimes the highest degree of patriotism is speaking truth to power, in this case exposing the lies and chicanery of a corrupt regime. Applause!!! Yes, I think it’s possible to be a thinking person and support Pres. Bush, for whatever reasons make sense to the person. And I see the point underlying **gobear** ’s second paragraph. I do have one thing that hit me hard to bring up here. It’s a thought I’ve expressed before, back in 2003. But I picked up _The Crazy Years_, the compilation of six years of columns written by Spider Robinson for the _Toronto Globe and Mail_, named after Robert A. Heinlein’s term for the last part of the 20th Century and the first dozen or so years of the 21st. And in the last essay in that book, written for it and trying to summarize the points he’s been making in his columns, he mentions Heinlein’s 1950 article “Where To?” (AKA "Pandora’s Box) – an attempt to extrapolate what the America of 2000 A.D. would be like, 50 years before the fact. After making nineteen predictions (with a rather high success rate, I might add), he makes a series of _“negative predictions”_ – things he’s relatively sure **won’t** happen. Number four on that latter list is worth quoting, and thinking about, _whatever your politics_: > [@Robert A. Heinlein](#): > > It is utterly impossible that the United States will start a ‘preventive war.’ We will fight only when attacked, either directly or in a territory we have guaranteed to defend. That was a core element of the values I grew up with. The good guy never hit first – he defended himself, and came out triumphant, but he never started the fight. It was true for kids, for adults, for the country. It’s amazing how low we’ve fallen in such a short time. 228 years of American tradition were thrown out in 2003, when we decided that – well, pick your reason; the Bush Administration apparently had a subscription to Justification of the Month Club at that time – was sufficient reason to invade Iraq and throw out the existing, legitimate if despicable, government. Ties to Al Qaeda? Nah, can’t be proven. WMDs? Aren’t there, weren’t there, but it was handy. Well, it’s a good thing that Saddam isn’t in power any more. Well, yeah, it is. But doing it the way we did, with the justifications we came up with, violated a principle of our foreign affairs that precedes George Washington’s Presidency. And a standard of American – Western! – values that dates back hundreds of years before that. Read that Heinlein quote again. He was a strong supporter of our military, and of opposition to tyranny anywhere. If you’ll recall, one of the big fights in Café Society was over the travesty Paul Verhoeven’s film (I use the term loosely) made of his novel _Starship Troopers_, which was a reasoned justification of the use of military force, and when and where it was appropriate. But suddenly **we** became the aggressor, the bully that we used to defend the little guys against. That’s **tragic**. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/39 "2005-01-14T14:23:39Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Of course, if you have no interest in educating and converting people to your POV, and just want to spew hate and venom at people who don’t agree with you, I apologize for spoiling your good time. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669/40 "2005-01-14T14:27:10Z")
If a rollyeyes smiley is the best you have to offer, you might as well cede the argument right now. You’re not even American; you don’t know or care about the political differences dividing us here in the States. so why should I or any American, Dem or Pub, listen to some foreigner tell us how to run our country? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushbots-since-i-cant-ask-for-your-brains-get-yer-asses-in-here/284669.md?page=3)