# BushCo outs our al-Qaeda infiltrator?! (Incompetent, malevolent, who gives a flip??) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831 "2004-08-08T01:01:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/41 "2004-08-10T00:20:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Brutus, first of all, if you think that wanting evidence of things like weapons of mass destruction is the same as demanding publishing the names of undercover agents, you’re a complete moron. He said nothing about _wanting evidence_, you five-star bonehead. He said that people that complained about the terrorist alert being smoke and mirrors really shouldn’t be saying anything about THIS issue, because they got what they wanted. > [@](#): > > The cat is never really out of the bag until it’s officially confirmed. You are so-o-o-o naive. The Court of Public Opinion is where Khan got outed. The second his name was ANYWHERE in the NYT, his use as an agent was obliterated. OSAMA: “Hey, Khan… word on the street is that you’re a rat.” KHAN: “No, 'Samy, I’m cool! It hasn’t been officially confirmed yet!” OSAMA: “Kha-a-a-a-a-an!” ::blam blam:: KHAN: ::slump:: ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/42 "2004-08-10T00:23:22Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > That sounds good until the first cop with loose lips starts telling his friends that ‘something’s up but I can’t tell you what it is’. Considering the admin is doing the same exact thing, I’d rather have a few lowly beats cops with loose lips, people will take them less seriously. > [@](#): > > Then people will start complaining that “our law enforcment agencies and the government are keeping the public in the dark about possible threats.” You’re right. Why can’t the admin come out and say “look folks, we’re in a bit of a damned if we do, damned if we don’t situation here. We think by keeping the appropriate law enforcement people informed we can best fight this war, etc, etc…so this is the course of action we’ve chosen” > [@](#): > > Besides, it’s a lot easier for Ridge to get up on a podium and say “orange” then it is to quietly get the information to every affected agency. I don’t give a shit what’s easier, I want what will fix the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/43 "2004-08-10T00:26:55Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > I’d agree that there’s a certain level of hypocracy in complaining that terror alert levels are issued without any information about the specific threat, and also complaining when information about the threats are leaked. **This is the reason** terror alerts are so undetailed - to do otherwise compromises our sources of information. Actually, I think this is completely wrong. First of all, most of the complaints I’ve heard about unspecific terror threats is that they completely lack information about the _threat_, not about the evidence for the threat. I’m fairly certain this is because they don’t have the information, not because they’re witholding it to protect the source. However, there’s no reason why you can’t warn people of specific threats without compromising your sources. Good: “We have reason to believe terrorists are planning an attack within the next few months, possibly against buildings X,Y, and Z in New York.” Bad: “We have reason to believe terrorists are planning an attack because our secret agent John Smith has infiltrated their highest ranks and is even now monitoring their plans, unbeknowst to them.” Useless: “Watch out! Something bad is coming! Buy more duct tape! You’ll need it! Never mind why!” ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/44 "2004-08-10T00:30:20Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Now I am getting confused. Perhaps one of you kindly Moore-ons could explain things for me… > > The first screechings from you folks were that the terror alert was based on nothing… > But now, the screechings have taken an interesting turn: DAMN THAT BUSH FOR TELLING US! > Which is it? > Of course, your babblings look like blatant fucking hypocrisy… **What about the rest of us, smartass?** Do you feel that we have any reason to express grave concern over the fact that some member of the Bush team blew _yet another_ sensitive, classified, national security operation? In your opinion, how many more undercover anti-WMD-proliferation agents do thay have to out, how many more life threatening national security secrets do they have to give to the Axis of Evil, before any American is able to righteuosly complain? What numbers are the cut-off points? I’m just wondering, because some Americans somewhere have to call these guys on these monumental examples of mendacity or incompetence. Americans should note that Bush picked at least one advisor who has a history of passing classified national security information to agents of a foreign government. When you take this in light of the reasons why character matters this sort of thing becomes predictable. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/45 "2004-08-10T00:30:54Z")
Yes, the poor Bush administration. Damned if you fuck up and damned if you fuck up. What’s a fool to do? Was there anyone anywhere whose response to a vague terrorist threat was, “Give us the name of the source!”? Again we see the difficulty that Republicans have grasping anything more complex than a (false) dichotomy. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/46 "2004-08-10T00:34:22Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > I’d agree that there’s a certain level of hypocracy in complaining that terror alert levels are issued without any information about the specific threat, and also complaining when information about the threats are leaked. But most liberals weren’t saying “release more information about the alerts!” They (we) were mostly saying “since you don’t have any detail to give us, don’t bother with these useless alerts!” ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/47 "2004-08-10T00:38:59Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > He said nothing about _wanting evidence_, you five-star bonehead. He said that people that complained about the terrorist alert being smoke and mirrors really shouldn’t be saying anything about THIS issue, because they got what they wanted. I guess, except that no one wanted evidence at the cost of throwing away an invaluable national security asset. I mean, I can tell my mother that I want a new XBox for Christmas. That doesn’t mean I want her to sell a kidney to pay for it. And if she does, I can damn well say “are you frickin’ nuts?” No matter what the skeptics said, it doesn’t change the fact that this administration is in charge of protecting the nation. For them to throw away this asset is insane. For people to defend the throwing away of this asset is really unfathomable to me. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/48 "2004-08-10T00:50:16Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > For them to throw away this asset is insane. For people to defend the throwing away of this asset is really unfathomable to me. Not to me. It’s _our_ fault for doubting the warnings. It’s _Howard Dean’s_ fault for speaking up about doubting the warnings, which got others to talk about it (bless you Dr. Dean). It’s the _Democrat’s_ fault for doubting anything this administration does. Say something against the administration? They’ll sacrifice a spook so they can say “SEE? See what you made us do?? I’d shut up if I were you!” In theory, such a fuck up shouldn’t be a partisan issue. I believe they made it an issue back when they outed Valerie Plame out of pure spite, and here again, because we dared to question. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/49 "2004-08-10T00:53:15Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > He said nothing about _wanting evidence_, you five-star bonehead. He said that people that complained about the terrorist alert being smoke and mirrors really shouldn’t be saying anything about THIS issue, because they got what they wanted. I think that one’s already been answered. But let me add one more thing: Wolf! People were complaining about this one being smoke and mirrors, since (a) there’d been so many meaningless alerts already, and (b) so many of them had seemed to fall at unusually convenient times, just in time to change the subject - and usually from something a bit more substantial than Monica Lewinsky. The street cred of terror alerts was rapidly converging towards zero. What ‘forced’ the Bushies to do stupid things was their own past actions. When your bank account is down to pennies, and you still want to buy something, you wind up hocking your Rolex. And that’s what they did, rather than simply exercising some self-discipline. Only it wasn’t _their_ Rolex to hock, in this case. It wasn’t even _America’s_ Rolex to hock. It belonged to everyone on our side in the frickin’ WoT. But we hocked it anyway. And we can’t understand why Britain and Pakistan are mad at us. > [@](#): > > You are so-o-o-o naive. The Court of Public Opinion is where Khan got outed. The second his name was ANYWHERE in the NYT, his use as an agent was obliterated. > > OSAMA: “Hey, Khan… word on the street is that you’re a rat.” > KHAN: “No, 'Samy, I’m cool! It hasn’t been officially confirmed yet!” > OSAMA: “Kha-a-a-a-a-an!” ::blam blam:: > KHAN: ::slump:: Yeah, the Bushies gave Khan’s name to the press, saying nothing about his role as double agent. The press - surprise! - _printed it!_ (Golly day, who’d’a thunk?) So somehow The Court of Public Opinion, whatever that is in this instance, is responsible for outing Khan. Not the Bushies. Boy, what a fucked-up argument _that_ is. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/50 "2004-08-10T00:59:50Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > You are so-o-o-o naive. The Court of Public Opinion is where Khan got outed. The second his name was ANYWHERE in the NYT, his use as an agent was obliterated. > > OSAMA: “Hey, Khan… word on the street is that you’re a rat.” > KHAN: “No, 'Samy, I’m cool! It hasn’t been officially confirmed yet!” > OSAMA: “Kha-a-a-a-a-an!” ::blam blam:: > KHAN: ::slump:: Is that all it takes? Fuck, I guess we can dismantle the Bureau of Homeland Security, the CIA, and pull our troops out of the Middle East. We don’t need to fight terrorism, just a few cunning stories in the NYT and they’ll all salughter each other! ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/51 "2004-08-10T01:06:57Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Yeah, the Bushies gave Khan’s name to the press, saying nothing about his role as double agent. The press - surprise! - _printed it!_ (Golly day, who’d’a thunk?) So somehow The Court of Public Opinion, whatever that is in this instance, is responsible for outing Khan. Not the Bushies. > > Boy, what a fucked-up argument _that_ is. Especially in defense of an administration that says it [doesn’t use polls](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/03/20010320-2.html) > [@GWB](#): > > One of things about this administration I think people will find is that we are consistent.We set out a set of principles and stand by them, that we don’t try to figure out polls and focus groups – we don’t use polls and focus groups to figure out where to head. This outing looks very much like a misguided attempt to buy some goodwill from a skeptical press and public. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/52 "2004-08-10T01:09:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by GWB > One of things about this administration I think people will find is that we are consistent.We set out a set of principles and stand by them, that we don’t try to figure out polls and focus groups – we don’t use polls and focus groups to figure out where to head. And the irony is they probably used a focus group to come up with this “no focus groups” gimmick. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/53 "2004-08-10T06:21:50Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > But most liberals weren’t saying “release more information about the alerts!” They (we) were mostly saying “since you don’t have any detail to give us, don’t bother with these useless alerts!” The more information that people wanted was just what was given in this one - specific places at risk. The other ones were of the “it’s Friday, and they may attack somewhere. New York, Las Vegas, Peoria, the Moon. We don’t know. We got static on the radio.” variety. Let me know who asked for the identity of agents, huh? It’s everyone’s fault but Shrub’s right? What the fuck happened to personal responsibility? What could these morons do that would make you not defend them. Oh, I know. Raise taxes for their rich friends. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/54 "2004-08-10T11:29:57Z")
Cracks. Me. UP! It’s the reporter’s fault, because he shoulda known it was wrong to print the information given to him by Bush cronies. So, Bush and his homies get a free pass, and can go shouting state secrets from the rooftops; we’ll trust the \*press \*to make sure that what happens at the White House stays at the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/55 "2004-08-10T11:30:48Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > What could these morons do that would make you not defend them. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I’m quite convinced that Bush could rape, kill, skin, dismember, cook, eat, and throw up a puppy in the middle of a prime-time press conference and people would say, look how _likeable_ he is? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/56 "2004-08-10T11:45:41Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I’m quite convinced that Bush could rape, kill, skin, dismember, cook, eat, and throw up a puppy in the middle of a prime-time press conference and people would say, look how _likeable_ he is? Or they might say [It’s a fucking dog. Get over it.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=270289) 😉 At this point, actually, I think the response (once someone complained about the puppy) would be a Drudge report “KERRY HAD A PUPPY CANDLELIGHT DINNER IN 1975 WITH JANE FONDA… DEVELOPING…” combined with a publicity campaign about how eating puppies shows how the President is just a regular guy just like everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/57 "2004-08-10T11:59:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Or they might say [It’s a fucking dog. Get over it.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=270289) 😉 At this point, actually, I think the response (once someone complained about the puppy) would be a Drudge report “KERRY HAD A PUPPY CANDLELIGHT DINNER IN 1975 WITH JANE FONDA… DEVELOPING…” combined with a publicity campaign about how eating puppies shows how the President is just a regular guy just like everyone else. Ha! I heard that Teresa Kerry once shooed away dog that was trying to hump her leg (CRUELTY TO ANIMALS!! BEASTIALITY!!). One of the Edward’s kids bit their dog’s ears too (RAISING THE NEXT GENERATION OF SERIAL KILLERS!!) Bush ingesting puppies is important to national security too. I haven’t read that thread. I mouse-over’d it and nearly threw up. I didn’t dare click on it. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/58 "2004-08-10T12:37:49Z")
**Brutus** , your kneejerk defending is admirable, as always, but I bet there’s one thing even you can’t stretch to: care to defend the outing of the double agent _without informing the intel of the country’s chief ally_, who were relying on his testimony to bust Al Qaeda cells? Care to try? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/59 "2004-08-10T12:53:30Z")
[Leak Allowed al-Qaida Suspects to Escape](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&e=3&u=/ap/20040810/ap_on_re_as/pakistan_intelligence_leak) > [@](#): > > ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - The disclosure to reporters of the arrest of an al-Qaida computer expert allowed several wanted suspects from Osama bin Laden’s terror network to escape, government and security officials said Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831/60 "2004-08-10T14:40:02Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [Leak Allowed al-Qaida Suspects to Escape](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&e=3&u=/ap/20040810/ap_on_re_as/pakistan_intelligence_leak) Oh my god. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushco-outs-our-al-qaeda-infiltrator-incompetent-malevolent-who-gives-a-flip/258831.md?page=4)