# Bush's new speech - Wow! AKA "If I say it, it must be true"
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 14, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604 "2005-12-14T17:28:48Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/1 "2005-12-14T17:28:48Z")
For a speech that acknowledges the intelligence that led him (and us by extension) to war was royally screwed up, and given what we know now, the number of flat pronouncements of abject nonsense that we are expected to gobble up is … is… I just don’t know. As a conservative I’m ashamed this man is my President. It’s stunning.
Regardless of how Iraq turns out, defending the loss of 2000+ young American lives and countless Iraqi lives on the premise that Saddam constituted an imminent threat is the US is a lie so clumsy, vile and transparent it’s stomach turning. Then to claim that we are justified in instituting democracy in Iraq by military force because well… “better safe than sorry” & “It’s good for them” is hubris on a scale that beggars the imagination.
[Bush acknowledges faulty Iraq intelligence - In speech, says war was still justified to oust Saddam, create democracy](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10461235/)
> [@](#):
>
> Beyond Saddam
> “We are in Iraq today because our goal has always been more than the removal of brutal dictator,” Bush said. “It is to leave a free and democratic Iraq in his place.
>
> “My decision to remove Saddam Hussein was the right decision. Saddam was a threat and the American people and the world is better off because he is no longer in power,” the president said.
---
### Author:  [@j2browning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j2browning)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/2 "2005-12-14T17:43:11Z")
How can anything he says still surprise anyone?
Don’t we all know/deny his faults?
---
### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/3 "2005-12-14T17:45:08Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> For a speech that acknowledges the intelligence that led him (and us by extension) to war was royally screwed up, and given what we know now, the number of flat pronouncements of abject nonsense that we are expected to gobble up is … is… I just don’t know. As a conservative I’m ashamed this man is my President. It’s stunning.
>
> Regardless of how Iraq turns out, defending the loss of 2000+ young American lives and countless Iraqi lives on the premise that Saddam constituted an imminent threat is the US is a lie so clumsy, vile and transparent it’s stomach turning. Then to claim that we are justified in instituting democracy in Iraq by military force because well… “better safe than sorry” & “It’s good for them” is hubris on a scale that beggars the imagination.
>
> [Bush acknowledges faulty Iraq intelligence - In speech, says war was still justified to oust Saddam, create democracy](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10461235/)
I agree with you - if Bush wanted to go to war in order to depose a brutal dictator and help Iraqis establish a democracy, he could and should have made that case, and left the WMDs out of it. Instead, he and Cheney and Condi and all them folks lied like crazy about WMDs, in order to scare the American people into a war of choice.
My only nitpick is about the intel being screwed up. AFAICT, the intel was respectable, but special groups like the Office of Special Plans were cherry-picking the intel for the few bits that made it look like Saddam had a serious weapons program going, and stovepiping those to Rumsfeld and Cheney. Meanwhile, policymakers had access to the rest of the intel which called into question the cherrypicked bits, but they decided to ignore all that.
Maybe the intel wasn’t perfect, but the main problem with the intel was how policymakers used it.
---
### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/4 "2005-12-14T17:53:14Z")
Despite the FACT that the real CIA Report has been on the web, well, since forever. Despite the fact that the DOWNING street memo has been on the web, well, since forever. Despite the fact that people WITHIN the Pentagon have published what was happening every step of the way on the web, well, since forever. Despite shitloads of newpaper reports that were written and been on the web, well, since forever. Despite what Wilson said and published, and which turned out to be true, and has been on the web, well, since forever. Despite the recent web reports and statements from his privately contracted spinmeister that will be on the web, well, forever. Despite the fact that he misrepresented the “war decision of congress” as merely a gt tough message - until afterwards when it - to him- became a true declaration of war.
He still won’t face the fact that HE sifted through the information, and picked what he wanted, in order to make a decision that was HIS. HE tried to spin the phony Saddam/Osama “connection”. HE raile about haters and freedom. It was his war. He pushed for it. He sold it under false pretenses. He made the decision. He still paints all opposers as “traitors”. He is responsible. Now he is trying to (again) blame someone else. At least I can say, I voted against him twice. My conscience is clear.
---
### Author:  [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/5 "2005-12-14T17:58:37Z")
What the heck are we debating here? Which of us is more repulsed by Bush’s prodigious prevarications and pellucid propagandizing?
---
### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/6 "2005-12-14T17:59:33Z")
So then. Is he going to apologize for his party’s Swiftboating of Murtha, Kerry, and everyone else? Is he going to tell his “buddies” to yank the White Flag advertisement?
Notice the slimy bastard says he “accepts blame” from one side of his mouth, while continuing to blame others, out the other side of his mouth. No balls.
---
### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/7 "2005-12-14T18:02:29Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#):
>
> What the heck are we debating here? Which of us is more repulsed by Bush’s prodigious prevarications and pellucid propagandizing?
Well, not you, apparently.
If you want a topic, how about “Is Bush capable of truly accepting responsibility for anything he does? Does the buck stop with \*anyone \* in this White House?”
Take it from there, **Unc**.
---
### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/8 "2005-12-14T18:07:09Z")
Sorry, but this is a rant, not a debate.
If some defenders of the administration decide to contribute before this gets too vile, a **Pit** Mod can send this back, but this is not a **Great Debate**.
[/Moderating]
---
### Author:  [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/9 "2005-12-14T18:08:21Z")
> [@SteveG1](#):
>
> Despite the FACT that the real CIA Report has been on the web, well, since forever. Despite the fact that the DOWNING street memo has been on the web, well, since forever. Despite the fact that people WITHIN the Pentagon have published what was happening every step of the way on the web, well, since forever. Despite shitloads of newpaper reports that were written and been on the web, well, since forever. Despite what Wilson said and published, and which turned out to be true, and has been on the web, well, since forever. Despite the recent web reports and statements from his privately contracted spinmeister that will be on the web, well, forever. Despite the fact that he misrepresented the “war decision of congress” as merely a gt tough message - until afterwards when it - to him- became a true declaration of war.
>
> He still won’t face the fact that HE sifted through the information, and picked what he wanted, in order to make a decision that was HIS. HE tried to spin the phony Saddam/Osama “connection”. HE raile about haters and freedom. It was his war. He pushed for it. He sold it under false pretenses. He made the decision. He still paints all opposers as “traitors”. He is responsible. Now he is trying to (again) blame someone else. At least I can say, I voted against him twice. My conscience is clear.
It’s a pity that the majority of your fellow citizens who took the time to vote either didn’t know, care about or believe all of this.
The spin worked beautiful. Nothing works as well as a war and a call to support the troops — WOOOOO — USA! USA! USA!
---
### Author:  [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/10 "2005-12-14T18:13:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> Well, not you, apparently.
>
> If you want a topic, how about “Is Bush capable of truly accepting responsibility for anything he does? Does the buck stop with \*anyone \* in this White House?”
>
> Take it from there, **Unc**.
How 'bout if we first back up a step? You seem to be saying I’m defending Bush. Ya wanna give us something I’ve posted which supports your implication? Might help before we just accept your words as a given.
And your proposed topic also sounds like a rant rather than a reasoned exchange of ideas. Kinda like a “When did you stop beating your wife,” question.
---
### Author:  [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/11 "2005-12-14T18:17:03Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#):
>
> And your proposed topic also sounds like a rant rather than a reasoned exchange of ideas. Kinda like a “When did you stop beating your wife,” question.
Which is a legitimate question if you actually did beat your wife but claim you have stopped.
---
### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/12 "2005-12-14T18:19:05Z")
> [@yojimbo](#):
>
> The spin worked beautiful. Nothing works as well as a war and a call to support the troops — WOOOOO — USA! USA! USA!
‘Naturally the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.’ –_Hermann Goering, in a private conversation with [Gustave Gilbert](http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm), 18 April 1946_
---
### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/13 "2005-12-14T18:21:28Z")
> [@yojimbo](#):
>
> It’s a pity that the majority of your fellow citizens who took the time to vote either didn’t know, care about or believe all of this.
>
> The spin worked beautiful. Nothing works as well as a war and a call to support the troops — WOOOOO — USA! USA! USA!
Yeah. Nothing says Support Our Troops quite like getting them killed over bullshit.
---
### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/14 "2005-12-14T18:30:05Z")
> [@David Simmons](#):
>
> Which is a legitimate question if you actually did beat your wife but claim you have stopped.
And further claim she had it coming anyway.
---
### Author:  [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/15 "2005-12-14T18:31:33Z")
> [@David Simmons](#):
>
> Which is a legitimate question if you actually did beat your wife but claim you have stopped.
I suppose it would then be a legitimate _question_. But still not a topic on which a reasoned exchange of ideas can take place - ya know, a _debate_.
---
### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/16 "2005-12-14T18:37:56Z")
Snicker. Look who’s talking - a born-again virgin. When did you decide to mend your ways?
Looks like **tomndebb** was right about defenders of this administration not having anything to contribute.
---
### Author:  [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/17 "2005-12-14T18:43:35Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> And further claim she had it coming anyway.
She fell down the stairs. Besides, you don’t understand. I’m different when I’m sober. And she can change me.
---
### Author:  [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/18 "2005-12-14T18:51:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> Snicker. Look who’s talking - a born-again virgin. When did you decide to mend your ways?
Still waiting for you to give us some supporting documentation.
> [@](#):
>
> Looks like **tomndebb** was right about defenders of this administration not having anything to contribute.
An obvious problem with comprehension you have there. Tom didn’t say anything like what you are claiming.
You should be more careful, or one might being to think you’re posting obvious stupidities because you’re a fucking troll.
---
### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/19 "2005-12-14T18:57:24Z")
> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> Sorry, but this is a rant, not a debate.
>
> If some defenders of the administration decide to contribute before this gets too vile, a **Pit** Mod can send this back, but this is not a **Great Debate**.
>
> [/Moderating]
I do apologize for posting this in GD. I started crafting a debate question, but the more I wrote, and the more I read his quotes about the justification of the war the more pissed off I became.
---
### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604/20 "2005-12-14T19:06:26Z")
> [@Neurotik](#):
>
> She fell down the stairs. Besides, you don’t understand. I’m different when I’m sober. And she can change me.
The administration’s remaining cheerleaders do sound like battered wives saying “But he’s a good provider, he really has a good heart, and I know he loves me”, don’t they?
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-speech-wow-aka-if-i-say-it-it-must-be-true/335604.md?page=2)