# Bush's new "we don't care" policy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757 "2003-04-28T20:01:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/1 "2003-04-28T20:01:59Z")
David Warren postulates that [Bush has a new approach to international relations](http://www.davidwarrenonline.com/Comment/Apr03/index134.shtml), which he calls the “we don’t care” policy. > [@](#): > > For decades foreign powers have been able to influence U.S. policy simply by fomenting anti-American displays… The Americans, and British, went into Iraq anyway; and the former at least seem now convinced that anti-Americanism should no longer be either subtly or overtly rewarded. It will instead be subtly ignored, or overtly punished. He defines the policy: > [@](#): > > [The “we don’t care” policy] consists of responding to major rhetorical and diplomatic challenges, including organized campaigns against U.S. interests choreographed through the United Nations, with something like total indifference. Some examples: > [@](#): > > Example: yesterday, when the defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, cut a verbal Gordian knot, by stating very simply that the U.S. would not allow a theocratic regime to arise in Iraq. One might deduce that it wouldn’t matter whether the thing were voted or not voted, before or behind a façade of “democracy”; or one might fail to deduce that. Either way, the thing itself is repugnant, and the U.S. will stop it happening. > > Example: earlier this week, when the secretary of state, Colin Powell, was asked unambiguously by media whether the U.S. intended to “punish” (their word) France for her recent behaviour over Iraq, and he replied in one word: “Yes.”… > > Further example: the U.S. response to the latest offering from Hans Blix to return to Iraq and “assist” in the U.S. and allied search for hidden weapons. There was no official U.S. response, that I could detect, only an unofficial, but also unambiguous, “Forget it.” I love it. In the 3rd example, Blix no longer has any standing. His obnoxious criticism of the US shouldn’t entitle him to anything. His offer deserved to be ignored, and it was. That approach simplifies foreign policy. This board had a complex debate about the Blix offer. But, if the question never arises, then the US can simply go ahead and do its job of finding the WMDs, if any. Regarding France, it sounds as if US policy now is: the smooth wheel gets the grease, not the squeaky one. Such a policy will encourage other wheels to run more smoothly. I expect to see improvements in a number of foreign problems as a result of this new policy. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/2 "2003-04-28T20:16:39Z")
Such as? ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/3 "2003-04-28T20:24:24Z")
Ya know, **december** , you’ve accused people that hold views similar to mine of being “anti-American”. How’s this fit your theory. I might actually be able to accept and buy into this new foreign policy. But to do so, I would first need the administration to lay it out, **honestly** , to the American people. The emperor has no clothes. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/4 "2003-04-28T20:28:43Z")
When you find yourself in an argument, doesn’t it down-right frustrate you when your opponent sticks his fingers in his ears and starts going “la la la, I can’t hear you!” Don’t you just want to slap them? And if a giant anvil were to drop down on them, would you be upset? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/5 "2003-04-28T20:29:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*Such as? \*\* – More cooperaton from Syria. – Less outrageous behavior by North Korea. – Less BS from our European allies. Note that tomorrow’s “mini defense summit” between Germany, France, Belgium and Luxembourg is now widely regarded as a joke. – Maybe the UN will actually become slightly useful in promoting world peace and human rights? Nah, that would be too much to hope for… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/6 "2003-04-28T20:33:10Z")
And those things follow how? ---
**Author:** ![Optihut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/edb3f5/32.png) [@Optihut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Optihut)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/7 "2003-04-28T20:35:55Z")
> [@](#): > > More cooperaton from Syria. Why would you want that? If Syria cooperated, it’d just make it harder for Bush to sell the next war to some people. Are you plotting against the president, December? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/8 "2003-04-28T20:36:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*And those things follow how? \*\* Figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/9 "2003-04-28T20:43:28Z")
**december** , do you think anti-American attitudes contribute to terrorism ala 9/11? Do you think “we don’t care” is a policy that fosters more or less anti-American attitudes? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/10 "2003-04-28T20:50:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > **. . . – Less outrageous behavior by North Korea. . . .** Even from you, december, this is funny. Didn’t NK invent this approach to foreign policy? How is the “we don’t care/lalala we’re not listening” doctrine going against a sociopathic megalomaniac like Kim Jong-Il, whose entire “political” career consists of aggressively ignoring the opinion of other nations? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/11 "2003-04-28T20:53:57Z")
I don’t know which is more frightening: that the administration doesn’t care what the rest of the world thinks, or that there appear to be Americans who actually think this is a good thing.:eek: ---
**Author:** ![urban1a](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47c2d/32.png) [@urban1a](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urban1a)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/12 "2003-04-28T21:07:00Z")
I’m not quite sure how anyone can believe our economy can survive without the cooperation of the rest of the world. To name, but two, televisions and computers, there are few, if any, actually manufactured here (assembled, maybe, but not manufactured). Most, if not all, electronic components are manufactured overseas, not here. The days when we are self sufficient are long over. Bob ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/13 "2003-04-28T21:07:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Figure it out. \*\* The december doctrine of “I don’t care” at work: **december:** blahblahblah **ElvisL1ves:** clarification please? **december:** YOU figure it out. I guess that’s whey they call it Great Debates. . . . or not. ---
**Author:** ![ChaosGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac91a4/32.png) [@ChaosGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChaosGod)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/14 "2003-04-28T21:09:07Z")
**lissener** -\> Perfect point! Norh Korea is using that exact shameless approach that December seems so thrilled about. NK is saying, “We’ve got nukes. Be nice to us. Show us the money” The US said officialy said that it wouldn’t reward this attitude, but everybody knows it WILL. Thats realpolitik for you. Isn’t it grand? ---
**Author:** ![ChaosGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac91a4/32.png) [@ChaosGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChaosGod)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/15 "2003-04-28T21:29:52Z")
And another thing. This “preemtive strike” fad that Bush started, is catching on. I’ve heard a few world leaders saying things that translate to “we have a right to attack first if we feel menaced, also”, in obvious reference to the US recent Iraq adventure. So, the “We don’t care” approach will be followed by , “We don’t care either”, and “Neither do we” and then “So why should we care?” The world will then be a beautiful place to live in. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/16 "2003-04-28T21:41:15Z")
If the US does indeed start adopting a policy of “we don’t care” towards the rest of the world, we’ll soon enough find the same policy adopted towards us as well. When the rest of the world turns it’s back on us… I think “we don’t care” will go right out the window. Hopefully, it won’t be too late by then. To be honest, I think “we don’t care” summarizes the Bush Administration’s policy on many things, both domestic and international. Sadly. Add me to the list that would love to see how better relations with Europe, the UN, Syria and North Korea follow from a “we don’t care” policy. To me, the opposite it is true, but if you’re going to say so, **december** , you’d better prove it. If you’re not too busy dancing on the grave of US foreign policy to care, that is… ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/17 "2003-04-28T21:55:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > **When you find yourself in an argument, doesn’t it down-right frustrate you when your opponent sticks his fingers in his ears and starts going "la la la, I can’t hear you!"** It’s one thing when the arguers are opponents; it’s another thing when some unconnected third party tries to horn in. E.g., there are activists in this country who make it their business to demonstrate or sometimes to cause trouble. The easy path is to let them be involved in the decision, because they will make it unpleasant to keep them out. I think the better course is often to ignore them, if they don’t merit a place at the table. In the long run, rewarding this sort of conduct encourages more of it. > [@](#): > > Do you think “we don’t care” is a policy that fosters more or less anti-American attitudes? Good question. I think it fosters less anti-American attitudes, because it no longer rewards them. (I guess I tend to have an economic viewpoint.) **urban1z** , I don’t see “we don’t care” as a method of going it alone. I see it as a way to have more focused, more productive relations with other countries and with the UN. > [@](#): > > **ChaosGod** > North Korea is using that exact shameless approach that December seems so thrilled about. NK is saying, “We’ve got nukes. Be nice to us. Show us the money” I didn’t say I was thrilled about NK’s threats and blackmail; I said we shouldn’t acquiesce. > [@](#): > > The US said officialy said that it wouldn’t reward this attitude, but everybody knows it WILL. That’s realpolitik for you. No question, this is the thorniest foreign policy problem currently facing the world. As this [column](http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/rbartley/?id=110003419) points out, we’ve rewarded that behavior over and over, going back to the Reagan admnisitration. Bush is trying to permanently fix the problem. If he actually succeeds, he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize. If he merely succumbs to the protection racket and pushes the problem into the future, he gets the same grade as Reagan, Clinton, Carter, etc. If he causes nuclear war, he flunks. > [@](#): > > **Optihut** > If Syria cooperated, it’d just make it harder for Bush to sell the next war to some people. Are you plotting against the president, December? Good joke. There is a serious side. If Syria minimally cooperates, they’ll still be a rotten, dangerous tyranny. OTOH, if we don’t have to mess with Syria right now, Bush can devote more attention and resources to North Korea. **lissener** , if you and **Elvis** want to debate, I’ll respond to your points. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/18 "2003-04-28T22:19:04Z")
I’m going to jump into the fray here on the side of December. Somewhat. I’ve noted this “we don’t care” policy in several threads over the last week or so. And I think it can be an effective policy when used judiciously. There are a lot times when certain countries (that start with “F” and end with “e”) try to use political posturing to exert influence over the US (like saying they don’t want to end snactions on Iraq after Saddam has been overthrown). The “we don’t care” policy is like calling “BS” on that country. It’s also important that the “we don’t care” policy be tempered with a “we do care” policy towards those countries that are willing to cooperate. I’d call this the “we don’t care (unless you also show that you’ve cared)” policy. Ever heard of the game theory analysis of cooperation as described in [The Evolution of Cooperation by R. Axelrod](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465021212/qid=1051567800/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/103-6354426-6222251?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)? The most stable strategy is one of the simplest, and is called “Tit for Tat”: **Start by Cooperating. Then Cooperate if you have been cooperated with, don’t cooperate if you haven’t if you haven’t been cooperated with.** I think this is pretty similar to the “we don’t care (unless you also show you’ve cared)” policy. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/19 "2003-04-28T22:49:21Z")
**december** , your veil is slipping. I can see your oligarchy. ---
**Author:** ![RD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RD)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757/20 "2003-04-28T22:51:41Z")
I really worry that Bush will take his “go it alone” policy to North Korea. Now that the China talks have failed, that’s a real possiblility. Somehow “shock and awe” will not impress a country with a million soldiers under arms, a naval fleet, and atomic warheads. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-new-we-dont-care-policy/171757.md?page=2)