# Bush's poll numbers dropping: can't fool all of the people all the time **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 21, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951 "2003-07-21T17:01:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/21 "2003-07-21T23:17:50Z")
Its Revolution from Below, from the bottom up. The uranium fiasco has squat to do with it, we knew all this months ago, nobody cared. But in the beauty shops and truck stops and bowling alleys and in my very own trailer park…the parents, spouses, cousins and loved ones various are bitching. They are reading between the lines of letters home, they are getting the news direct from the front lines…and they don’t like it. Johnny ain’t coming home, nor is Janie nor Pablo nor Tyrone. They dont give a rats about WMD’s, even less about foreign policy. They care that the people they love are in danger for no good reason. Behold, Mr. Bush, the inexorable subtlety of the laws of _karma_, that grind slow but grind exceeding fine. Today’s pig is tomorrow’s bacon. ---
**Author:** ![LordVor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90ced4/32.png) [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/22 "2003-07-22T00:48:11Z")
True story. Last week, I was having lunch with my wife in a very good seafood restaurant in a very expensive town to live in (it was actually featured in the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy trilogy. At one point in time, Arthur Dent grabbed his waitress and shook her, screaming “Why does this fish taste so damned good?”). A couple of old (50-60ish) white men were sitting at the table next to us. Their age and their hearing lead to their conversation being quite audible to us. After a big discussion involving million-dollar land deals, who’s looking to buy into what property and how many hundreds of thousands of dollars they’ll gain from it, and what they plan on buying/traveling to when the money comes in, the talk turned to politics. “I think our President is in trouble” says one. “Yeah, I don’t like the way he passed on the responsibility for what he said at all. But all the blame on that CIA guy but still express confidence in him and don’t fire him? I don’t get that at all” responds the other. “The Bay of Pigs was a fucking disaster, but at least the president stood up and said that it was _his_ fucking disaster.” etc. It was about this time that I leaned into my wife and said “If the old rich white guys are starting to be _this_ mad about Bush, he better duck and cover.” -lv ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/23 "2003-07-22T03:51:52Z")
I’d like to see him polling lower than Al Sharpton. Projected to lose Utah to Sharpton if the election were held today. And a sudden influx of Republican hats into the '04 ring. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/24 "2003-07-22T03:58:59Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d like to see that list, the “Usual Suspects” as coined by elucidator. Hey! I started saying “Usual Suspects” referring to those who look for anything they can to attack Bush on before elucidator ever used the term to refer to Bush defenders. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/25 "2003-07-22T07:34:12Z")
If only those polled would, I don’t know, actually cast their votes on election day… I still do place any faith in polls. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/26 "2003-07-22T07:35:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monster104 \* > \*\*Hey! I started saying “Usual Suspects” referring to those who look for anything they can to attack Bush on before elucidator ever used the term to refer to Bush defenders. \*\* What difference does it make, really? Aren’t we both suspicious? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/27 "2003-07-22T07:45:39Z")
On this issue, my favorite moment was this afternoon on CNN when the lovely talking head said: So, you see Bush’s approval rating is actually slightly higher than it was back in March. ( **I think it was March, could be some other month. Damn this infernal memory!** ) The margin of error in this poll is 3%. The kicker is that he was 59% today, and 58% back then and he actually said what the margin for error was. He said it, and then he said Bush was doing better. Grr… They should just display everything with error bars. (His rating is between 56 and 62 percent today. Back to you, John.) Tenebras ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/28 "2003-07-22T13:03:14Z")
More fun with numbers. > [@](#): > > SAN FRANCISCO – The letters are pouring in like a water main break – fast and, yes, furious. From Alabama: “We want to know the truth!” From Arizona: “If there’s nothing to hide, what’s the harm in a bipartisan inquiry?” From Mississippi: “We must get to the truth – whatever it is!” > > About 400,000 people from every state have contacted members of Congress in the past three weeks as part of a [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) petition that asks Congress to investigate the controversial claims that led to the war on Iraq, with more than 50,000 people signing on to the liberal activist Web site in the past five days alone. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25527-2003Jul21.html?nav=hptop\_tb](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25527-2003Jul21.html?nav=hptop_tb) 400,000? Dang. Makes me laugh thinking of the arch-Apologista’s wishful thinking post where he stated nobody cared about this issue and it wouls quickly blow away. Well its a month later, and the only thing blowing away is Blair and Bush’s credibility and mainstream support ratings. Polls low again? Time to wag the dog again, as it worked **so** well the first time. > [@](#): > > “This includes the governments of Syria and Iran,” he said, appearing at his ranch with Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi. “Syria and Iran continue to harbor and assist terrorists. This behavior is completely unacceptable, and states that support terror will be held accountable.” Bush not really fooling anyone (except the “pre-fooled”): > [@](#): > > Jon B. Alterman, director of the Middle East Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said the timing of the comments appeared to be designed to call attention to Bush’s vision for the region at a time when violence against U.S. troops continues in Iraq and his justification for the war is being questioned on Capitol Hill. “This administration has been very successful about managing its message, but that has been getting away from them on Iraq,” Alterman said. “There has been very little positive in recent weeks.” [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25463-2003Jul21.html?nav=hptop\_ts](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25463-2003Jul21.html?nav=hptop_ts) Nice to see Curious George learns from his mistakes. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/29 "2003-07-22T13:07:06Z")
I have to say, the expression “pre-fooled” is quite amusing. I don’t know that I fully agree, but it is funny. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/30 "2003-07-22T13:39:47Z")
Gotta admit, that’s a keeper. On the poll subject Zogby had a keeper this weekend that had ‘of likely voters’… 47% said GWB should be re-elected…48% said it was time for someone new. I figure Karl Rove threw up on his Rice Crispies the morning that came out. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/31 "2003-07-22T13:42:06Z")
Hmm, I didn’t see any anti-war Democratic candidates when the rest of the world was calling for evidence of nukes. Might it be that the US is simply a one party state? The coming election is the chance to choose which of the puppeteer’s hands you prefer. Unfortunately they’re both _right_ hands. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/32 "2003-07-22T13:50:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monster104 \* > \*\*Hey! I started saying “Usual Suspects” referring to those who look for anything they can to attack Bush on before elucidator ever used the term to refer to Bush defenders. \*\* Can this be true? Could our dear **elucidator** , noted for his rhetorical proficiency and gift of gab, have dishonestly appropriated the product of another’s creativity and used it for his own nefarious ends? Woe! My world is crashing around me. ---
**Author:** ![Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misery_Loves_Co)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/33 "2003-07-22T14:02:07Z")
Well, “Usual Suspects” **is** such a unique phrase - never used by anyone, anywhere in the manner that Monster did. Such a shining star of creative rhetoric, resplendant in its perfect encapsulation of the specific nature of leftist scum. Clearly elucidator’s gall knows no limits in plagiarizing and coopting Monster’s concept. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/34 "2003-07-22T14:03:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SentientMeat \* > \*\*Hmm, I didn’t see any anti-war Democratic candidates when the rest of the world was calling for evidence of nukes. > > Might it be that the US is simply a one party state? > > The coming election is the chance to choose which of the puppeteer’s hands you prefer. Unfortunately they’re both _right_ hands. \*\* Ah yes. Another European know-nothing who has false impressions of US politics. Robert Byrd, a very powerful Senator opposed the war quite publicly. Howard Dean, one of the favorites of the Democratic candidates, was quite staunchly opposed to the war. Please learn something about the US before you go making a fool of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/35 "2003-07-22T14:21:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Howard Dean, one of the favorites of the Democratic candidates, was quite staunchly opposed to the war. Yes, the Guardian did a run down on him recently - I was under the impression he was rather a non-runner: apologies for my misapprehension. In the interests of further illumination, d’you think he’s actually got a chance in the current political climate? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/36 "2003-07-22T14:33:44Z")
He’s got a decent shot at the nomination. Whether he wins the election will largely depend on the continuing sage in Iraq. He’s clearly the only candidate pre-positioned to make hay from the continuing string of ‘Another US soldier was killed today…’ reports on the news. All the other democratic candidates (the serious ones) are caught on the wrong foot on the issue. They’ll have to re-position themselves before they can profit from it. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/37 "2003-07-22T14:40:48Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by SentientMeat_ > **In the interests of further illumination, d’you think he’s actually got a chance in the current political climate?** Maybe. He started out on the fringes because he had no name recognition. Very important in the beginning for fund-raising purposes. The Governor of Vermont just doesn’t get much publicity. He still isn’t on most people’s radars just yet, mostly because the upcoming elections aren’t. But his poll numbers have been gaining, and it seems like he’s getting more publicity. I believe his poll numbers in New Hampshire are quite high, and he has recently emerged as the Democratic leader in California, which has a huge number of electoral votes. If he can win the New Hampshire primary or come in second, he’ll get a ton of publicity as the campaign unfolds. He’s definitely not a non-runner in the Democratic primary. Can he beat Bush? Possibly. Especially if the war situation gets worse and the economy doesn’t improve. He’s got a solid record as governor in Vermont and he was in the lead in saying that the US should have gone with the UN in Iraq, so that will especially benefit him if the Administration goes back to the UN for help. A lot of Republicans think that he’s got no shot against Bush because of his anti-war positions. That might be true, but it might not be true as well. Too early to tell. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/38 "2003-07-22T14:54:21Z")
I have seen the idea floated that as Bush looks more beatable, Hillary Clinton may be tempted to run against him in 2004. Is this a good idea for Ms. Clinton? For the Democratic Party? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/39 "2003-07-22T15:07:34Z")
Ooog. The idea makes me sick to my stomach. I don’t think she will because there’s still a strong chance of Bush being re-elected. I don’t think she will chance it, especially since I don’t think her anti-war record would be good enough to use against Bush. Think 2008. Hopefully we can get Dean in there in 2004 and postpone Clinton’s running until 2012. Or indefinitely. That would be nice. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951/40 "2003-07-22T15:17:27Z")
Hey! **December**! Stop distracting us! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-poll-numbers-dropping-cant-fool-all-of-the-people-all-the-time/189951.md?page=3)