# Bush's statement on insurgents? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057 "2005-10-06T15:50:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/1 "2005-10-06T15:50:39Z")
I caught part of Bush’s speach whilst I was doing dishes this morning. Did he really say that his invasion of Iraq is _not_ resulting in more people joining terrorist ranks? Although this is a GQ, I’m putting it here because I think it will turn out to be a debate. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/2 "2005-10-06T16:06:41Z")
[Transcript at whitehouse.gov](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/10/20051006-3.html) I don’t see where that exact claim is made. However, he does beat around in the near vicinity of something similar: > [@](#): > > Some have also argued that extremism has been strengthened by the actions of our coalition in Iraq, claiming that our presence in that country has somehow caused or triggered the rage of radicals. I would remind them that we were not in Iraq on September the 11th, 2001 – and al Qaeda attacked us anyway. The hatred of the radicals existed before Iraq was an issue, and it will exist after Iraq is no longer an excuse. The government of Russia did not support Operation Iraqi Freedom, and yet the militants killed more than 180 Russian schoolchildren in Beslan. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/3 "2005-10-06T16:12:18Z")
> [@](#): > > We know that Iraq and the al Qaeda terrorist network share a common enemy – the United States of America. We know that Iraq and al Qaeda have had high-level contacts that go back a decade. Some al Qaeda leaders who fled Afghanistan went to Iraq. > > These include one very senior al Qaeda leader who received medical treatment in Baghdad this year, and who has been associated with planning for chemical and biological attacks. We have learned that Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb making, poisons, and deadly gases. > > And we know that after September 11, Saddam Hussein’s regime gleefully celebrated the terrorist attacks on America. Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists. Bring back the throwup smiley, please. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/4 "2005-10-06T16:18:45Z")
:smack: I got that from an old speech, thining I was looking at the current one, albeit it at [cnn.com](http://cnn.com), not [whitehouse.gov](http://whitehouse.gov) . [Linky](http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/07/bush.transcript/). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/5 "2005-10-06T16:21:41Z")
> [@](#): > > The government of Russia did not support Operation Iraqi Freedom, and yet the militants killed more than 180 Russian schoolchildren in Beslan. So, in the simplistic world of GWB, “they’re all the same.” Never mind that the Beslan atrocity was carried out by a specific ethnic group who has a particular 220 year old grievance against the Russians irreespective of events in the Middle East. It is truly frightening to see such ignorance displayed by a person wielding that much power. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/6 "2005-10-06T16:26:22Z")
> [@Duhbya](#): > > We have learned that Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb making, poisons, and deadly gases. Cite? :dubious: 😉 Thanks for the quote, **Squink**. If I’m reading it correctly Bush is saying that the rage of radicals is not because of his invasion, because Iraq didn’t attack us before 11 September 2001. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/7 "2005-10-06T16:32:07Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > It is truly frightening to see such ignorance displayed by a person wielding that much power. In fairness I don’t think even he’s that bad. He and his people know that a lot of the people listening are that ignorant however and that’s what counts. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/8 "2005-10-06T16:47:17Z")
It’s pretty clear from this and previous speeches on the subject that either Mr. Bush has an extremely simplistic view of what it is he is fighting, or for some unstated reason feels it essential to relentlessly dumb down his remarks for his audience, but whatever. After the WH promises of ‘unprecedented detail’, however, there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot new here, except maybe for this: > [@George W. Bush](#): > > Overall, the United States and our partners have disrupted at least ten serious al Qaeda terrorist plots since September the 11th, including three al Qaeda plots to attack inside the United States. We’ve stopped at least five more al Qaeda efforts to case targets in the United States, or infiltrate operatives into our country. I for one would be interested to know specifically which plots he is referring to, and particularly whether these were actually being mounted under some centrally-directed plan, organized independently with maybe some financial or logistical assistance from a presumed al-Queda network, or simply claimed to al-Queda ops by the White House. I presume one of the US-targeted plots involved the group arrested in Buffalo a while back. Anyone got a scorecard? ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/9 "2005-10-06T16:58:41Z")
Bush is making a BS argument here, that our involvement is Iraq is all about stopping Al Qaeda from taking it over. (“The militant network wants to use the vacuum created by an American retreat to gain control of a country, a base from which to launch attacks and conduct their war against non-radical Muslim governments.”) If that were truly what we were worried about, we’d never have kicked out Saddam, because he was doing a fine job keeping the radicals at bay, at a much smaller cost to ourselves. Sometimes I feel that Bush is Al Qaeda’s best propagandist. He certainly doesn’t show much hesitation about building it up. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/10 "2005-10-06T17:11:19Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > I don’t see where that exact claim is made. However, he does beat around in the near vicinity of something similar: It’s a result of the Iraq-War on Terror connection, I guess. He seems to have a habit of jumping from one topic to the other. > [@](#): > > Some have also argued that extremism has been strengthened by the actions of our coalition in Iraq, claiming that our presence in that country has somehow caused or triggered the rage of radicals. I would remind them that we were not in Iraq on September the 11th, 2001 – and al Qaeda attacked us anyway. The hatred of the radicals existed before Iraq was an issue, and it will exist after Iraq is no longer an excuse. He’s absolutely correct that AQ and hateful radicals existed before Iraq, of course. But he phrases these comments as if he’s been asked, “has Iraq made that more or less of a problem?” In that case, those words are a non-response. It’s shifting the topic slightly to avoid an uncomfortable answer. His use of “somehow” is, to me, a little irritating, as if the idea that the invasion angered radicals is mysterious or difficult to explain. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/11 "2005-10-06T22:38:54Z")
> [@George W. Bush](#): > > Overall, the United States and our partners have disrupted at least ten serious al Qaeda terrorist plots since September the 11th, including three al Qaeda plots to attack inside the United States. We’ve stopped at least five more al Qaeda efforts to case targets in the United States, or infiltrate operatives into our country. This is probably true, and to which I say huzzah and bully for you. This is the way the WoT should be fought – through international police and intelligence agencies, the occasional judicious use of special ops, and (to quote Aaron Sorkin) a busboy with a Beretta. What this has to do with Iraq, though, is beyond me, or anybody but GW Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/12 "2005-10-06T23:25:54Z")
Given the current situation in NYC, was this speech preemptive spin? According to the latest media information, a subway bomb threat has been uncovered involving 19 terrorists and explosive packed suitcases. And i just heard 15 minutes ago that a terrorist safe house south of Baghdad has been raided, and it has some connection to the NYC bomb threat. It looks like the Bush administration needs to get two basic points across: 1. It’s not our fault that the terrorists want to kill us, they wopuld want to kill us no matter what we do. This is the statement the OP has questioned. 2. Look how badly we need to be in Iraq, there are terrorists over there planning attacks against the American homeland. More troops! More money! Judging from today’s talk radio, the Republican lap dogs have latched onto this and have been hammering away. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/13 "2005-10-07T00:08:52Z")
[Fact check on Bush’s “10 Al-Qaeda plots disrupted” claim:](http://thinkprogress.org/2005/10/06/10-plots-fact-check/) > [@](#): > > 1. Jose Padilla. “Paul Wolfowitz, Mr. Rumsfeld’s deputy, stressed on Monday that ‘there was not an actual plan’ to set off a radioactive device in America and Padilla had not begun trying to acquire materials. Intelligence officials said his research had not gone beyond surfing the internet.” > > 2. Iyman Faris. Faris was an Ohio truck driver who pleaded guilty in June 2003 to two felony charges of supporting a foreign terrorist organization. He was charged with plotting to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge, but U.S. officials admitted that Faris had abandoned the plot because he deemed it unlikely to succeed. > > 3-10: Classified. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/14 "2005-10-07T00:13:27Z")
The man is having an ever increasingly distant relationship with reality. It truly appears to me that his faculties are slipping away by the week. This administration is circling the drain. The same old lies, over and over again. One has to wonder if even he believes them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/15 "2005-10-07T00:54:05Z")
So much bullshit, so little time! Steaming load the first: that we fight in Iraq to prevent the likes of Zarkawi and ObL from taking over Iraq. Jesus fuck a shit souffle! Iraq is a predominately Shia nation, Zarqawi and ObL are of an extremist _Sunni_ branch that includes the Wahhabist nutbars, they have no more chance of “taking over” Iraq than Pat Robertson has of being consecrated Archbishop of Canterbury! And than all this hoo-ha about foiling 10 terrorist plots against America. Dammit, dimwit, if you’re gonna say “10” you better be able to rattle off the 10. Its dumber than a barrel of rocks to say “I saved yer ass 10 times, here’s three of them, can’t tell you about the rest, but you should trust me, because, after all I saved yer ass 15 times…” [prempted by Comrade **rjung**. Brevity ensues.] ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/16 "2005-10-07T01:06:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So much bullshit, so little time! > > Steaming load the first: It’s all been one big steaming load after another, from Day One. We really do need the puke smiley. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/17 "2005-10-07T03:05:28Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. Jose Padilla… > 2. Iyman Faris… > 3-10: Classified. The white house gave out the list of ten to reporters a few hours after the speech. I couldn’t find it at [whitehouse.gov](http://whitehouse.gov), but [the NY Times details it:](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/07/politics/07prexy.html?pagewanted=2) 3,4: The White House released no details of the two hijacking plots that it said were disrupted. 5: Shaikh Mohammed envisioned carrying out a new plot on targets in the West Coast in 2002 6: plots to bomb several sites in Britain in 2004 7: attack Heathrow Airport in London using hijacked commercial airliners in 2003 8: attack Westerners at several places in Karachi, Pakistan, in spring 2003 9: attack ships in the Persian Gulf in late 2002 and 2003 10: attack ships in the Strait of Hormuz, a narrow part of the gulf where it opens into the Arabian Sea, in 2002 11: attack a tourist site outside the United States in 2003 Dagnabit, this list of ten holds eleven incidents. Did the administration get it wrong, or are the reporters messing with us? It’d be nice if _someone_ hosted the original white house press handout. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-statement-on-insurgents/325057/18 "2005-10-07T14:41:19Z")
I didn’t know if I should post this in this thread of the ACLU thread: Did the invasion of Iraq create more terrorists? “Oh no! Every Iraqi who just wanted to get on with their lives under Sadam is doing so, now in a democracy where Sunnis and Shia and Kurds will share the oil wealth like contented puppies at their mother’s teats. These snipers and suicide bombers were already in Al Qaeda and just snuck in from Syria and Iran. By invading Iraq, we’ve not only eliminated Sadam, but created a trap to fight AQ in one handy zone!” (which worked so well for the French at Diem Bien Phu) Should we release the new Abu Gharib photos? “Oh no! That would create more terrorists and endanger the lives of US servicemen in Iraq. Of course we believe in the freedom of the press, but, as Benjamin Franklin said: ‘liberty is so precious it needs to be rationed.’” Obviously, somebody wants to have it both ways.