# Bush's War Czar says the draft is on the table
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 11, 2007, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199 "2007-08-11T00:29:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/1 "2007-08-11T00:29:59Z")
[‘War Czar’ Concerned over Stress of War on Troops](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12688693)
> [@](#):
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> Lt. Gen. Douglas Lute, assistant to the president and deputy national security adviser for Iraq and Afghanistan, says he is concerned about the toll the war in Iraq and extended deployments are taking on U.S. forces.
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> The man who is widely known as the “war czar” also says that from a military standpoint, a return to a draft should be part of the discussion.
Is this just a trial balloon to judge the level of opposition to restoring the draft? Or is it a real possibility that will be decided in the near future?
> [@](#):
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> [**NPR**] You know, given the stress on the military and the concern about these extended deployments for an all-volunteer military, can you foresee, in the future, a return to the draft?
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> [**Lute**] You know, that’s a national policy decision point that we have not yet reached, Michele, because the —
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> [**NPR**] But does it make sense militarily?
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> [**Lute**] I think it makes sense to certainly consider it, and I can tell you, this has always been an option on the table, but ultimately, this is a policy matter between meeting the demands for the nation’s security by one means or another. Today, the current means of the all-volunteer force is serving us exceptionally well. It would be a major policy shift — not actually a military, but a political policy shift to move to some other course.
Sounds to me like it will be considered, perhaps as soon as next spring:
> [@](#):
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> [**Lute**] Yes, I do agree that come the spring, some variables will have to change — either the degree to which the American ground forces, the Marines and the Army in particular, are deployed around the world to include Iraq, or the length of time they’re deployed in one tour, or the length of time they enjoy at home. Those are, essentially, the three variables.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/2 "2007-08-11T00:33:39Z")
Hell, no! Too old to go!
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### Author:  [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/3 "2007-08-11T00:35:48Z")
Let them try to bring back the draft. It would be a fitting epitaph for not only the Bush administration but the entire Republican Party.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/4 "2007-08-11T00:43:02Z")
[QUOTE=Orbifold]
It would be a fitting epitaph for not only the Bush administration but the entire Republican Party.
[/QUOTE]
I wonder if it would force any Republican candidates (besides Ron Paul) to finally repudiate any part of the Administration’s Iraq strategy.
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/5 "2007-08-11T00:57:00Z")
[QUOTE=Orbifold]
Let them try to bring back the draft. It would be a fitting epitaph for not only the Bush administration but the entire Republican Party.
[/QUOTE]
Do it! Do it! Do it!
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/6 "2007-08-11T01:01:31Z")
It’ll never happen. No way, no how. Lute’s superiors would never agree to it.
I don’t doubt it’s “on the table,” but it’s probably “on the table” in the same way one would put abolishing mail service “on the table” for preventing anthrax attacks - an extreme case that has to be mentioned, but will never be actually done.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/7 "2007-08-11T01:32:57Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
[Sounds to me like it will be considered, perhaps as soon as next spring:
[/QUOTE]
No actual reading of that quote could come to that conclusion. He said there were three variables to consider, listed the three, and none of them was the draft:
> [@](#):
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> [Lute] Yes, I do agree that come the spring, some variables will have to change — either [1] the degree to which the American ground forces, the Marines and the Army in particular, are deployed around the world to include Iraq, or [2] the length of time they’re deployed in one tour, or [3] the length of time they enjoy at home. Those are, essentially, the three variables.
Numbers added for clarification. No draft in there.
Besides, Congress has to act to re-institute the draft and that just isn’t going to happen.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/8 "2007-08-11T01:52:52Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace]
No actual reading of that quote could come to that conclusion.
[/QUOTE]
Not specifically, only that next spring, maintaining force levels in Iraq is going to become a critical issue. If the draft is on the table, it may be evaluated at that time. I only included that quote to highlight next spring as a crucial decision point.
> [@](#):
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> Besides, Congress has to act to re-institute the draft and that just isn’t going to happen.
Agreed. But if the Administration even proposes it, it will have a devastating effect on the remaining shreds of support, as well as create a problem for Republican candidates who find it painful to disagree with the President on matters of defense.
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### Author:  [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/9 "2007-08-11T02:09:07Z")
God, I hope this idea is the centerpiece of Bush’s next SOTU. The only thing that would make it better is if he also proposes that the wealthy can hire a replacement to go in their stead.
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### Author:  [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/10 "2007-08-11T02:10:42Z")
Well worth doing if you believe we are in a decades-long war on terror. If you do not really think so, then not so much.
I would suspect the Administration doesn’t believe the snake oil they are selling.
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/11 "2007-08-11T02:44:33Z")
Funny, but I thought I kept hearing that a bunch of conscripts would be a liability in the field. You know, compared to those National Guard and straight-out-of-Basic guys that get shoveled over there on a regular basis.
Must be mis-remembering.
-Joe
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### Author:  [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/12 "2007-08-11T02:51:20Z")
I thought it was usually a democrat that suggested a return to the draft [in recent years](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_draft#Conscription_controversies_since_2003). Hey, maybe that can be the dems next platform!
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### Author:  [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/13 "2007-08-11T02:53:57Z")
Nope the situation has changed. If we want the sort of force levels long-term we have been generating short-term, we need more guys. At this point, I suspect the need for people outweighs the traditional distain professional soldiers have for conscripts.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/14 "2007-08-11T03:11:35Z")
There is a canary in the mine. Before they will get to drafting, they will long since have greatly increased the number of foreign-born soldiers enlisting for immigration status for themselves and their families. Say, two family members for every tour of combat infantry. Something like that.
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### Author:  [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/15 "2007-08-11T03:19:36Z")
This presumes the American people are unwilling to fight or take casualties. This is one of those facts everyone knows; but it may not be true. We willingly buried our sons for Union and to defeat Fascism, there is no obvious reason why we cannot fight our own fight this time around.
The idea that Americans will not fight is untrue. Better to say the politicians are unwilling to ask them to.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/16 "2007-08-11T03:21:13Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek]
Funny, but I thought I kept hearing that a bunch of conscripts would be a liability in the field. You know, compared to those National Guard and straight-out-of-Basic guys that get shoveled over there on a regular basis.
Must be mis-remembering.
-Joe
[/QUOTE]
Standards were higher. Pre Bush you wouldn’t see soldiers as poorly trained sent in, our recruiting standards were higher, and so on.
[QUOTE=elfkin477]
I thought it was usually a democrat that suggested a return to the draft [in recent years](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_draft#Conscription_controversies_since_2003). Hey, maybe that can be the dems next platform!
[/QUOTE]
The Democrats bring up the subject for political reasons, but I think it unlikely they ever had any intention of pushing for it seriously. On the other hand I’ve been hearing for years about the Bushies making preparation for a draft; funding and staffing the draft infrastructure and such.
As for them actually pushing for one; if it was any other Administration I’d laugh off the possibility. These fools might just be dumb enough to try.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/17 "2007-08-11T03:25:25Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi]
This presumes the American people are unwilling to fight or take casualties. This is one of those facts everyone knows; but it may not be true. We willingly buried our sons for Union and to defeat Fascism, there is no obvious reason why we cannot fight our own fight this time around.
The idea that Americans will not fight is untrue. Better to say the politicians are unwilling to ask them to.
[/QUOTE]
Fighting against Hitler or in a Civil War is one thing, but Iraq is just an international version of a mugging and beating. Americans might not care about how many Iraqis die for our profit and amusement, but few of them are going to risk their own skin. Especially since the Iraqis have the poor taste to fight back instead of grovelling like they are supposed to.
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### Author:  [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/18 "2007-08-11T04:24:46Z")
[QUOTE=elfkin477]
I thought it was usually a democrat that suggested a return to the draft [in recent years](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_draft#Conscription_controversies_since_2003). Hey, maybe that can be the dems next platform!
[/QUOTE]
The Democrats do it to force the Republican hand. Of course the pubbies denounce it, rally their troops 😃 against the bill and defeat it. But what that ends up doing is tying Bush’s hands. Even if the draft idea has legs out of the White House, Congress (the pubbies) now are in a real knicker twister. How do they support their president when they’ve already committed a preemptive strike against him, on the record?
Rangel is that shrewd.
On a slight hijack, I just saw the maximum enlistment age was raised to 42, with signing bonuses of up to $20,000 if you sign up and enter boot camp in less than 30 days. Desperate times require desperate measures.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/19 "2007-08-11T04:45:04Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi]
Well worth doing if you believe we are in a decades-long war on terror.
[/QUOTE]
Why would a draft be of any use in such a war? (Which would **not** be the kind of war you can effectively fight with an army, and which would bear no resemblance to anything we’ve done in Iraq.)
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2007, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushs-war-czar-says-the-draft-is-on-the-table/415199/20 "2007-08-11T05:43:13Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
Why would a draft be of any use in such a war? (Which would **not** be the kind of war you can effectively fight with an army, and which would bear no resemblance to anything we’ve done in Iraq.)
[/QUOTE]
It wouldn’t be useful. If the terrorists would neatly line up and fight like an army we’d kill them all without needing a draft, which is why they’ll never do that. If we fight terrorism effectively, we need intelligence agents, police, diplomats, and enough military force to take out any safe harbors we can’t talk into giving them up; we don’t need a draft for that either. In no case is a large, unmotivated body of troops needed for a “war on terror”, which is what the draft will get you. For an occupying force for wars of conquest; that’s what you’d need it for, and I expect that’s what Bush & friends want it for.
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