# Business policies that discourage business / do more harm than good **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 22, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028 "2014-05-22T20:20:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/61 "2014-05-23T20:52:09Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > So that’s why I think AmEx has wider appeal. On the other hand, I’ve wondered why AmEx can’t have “tiered merchant fees”, with the usual higher fees for the charge cards but lower fees for the credit cards. Unless that’d be too much of a hassle, maybe. [Here’s](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f44/JoeyJoeyPP/IMG_20140523_154833676_zpsermyx7t2.jpg) part of one page of my merchant statement. A few more lines wouldn’t be a hassle. I’m not going to get into the ins and outs of Amex, but if they wanted to charge different things to the merchants for different types of cards, they certainly could. Everyone else does. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Woo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@Dr.Woo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Woo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/62 "2014-05-24T00:31:48Z")
I get kind of huffy over “for your convenience” as a reason for a rule or policy. My nearest grocery store has self-checkouts, which I like, but they don’t permit alcohol sales through them for obvious reasons - no one can check ID. That’s fine, I get it. If I’m buying wine or beer I’ll have to wait in line for a checker. But the sign they’ve put up in front of the self checkout says, “For your convenience and in compliance with state law, no alcohol purchases are allowed”. All those bozos needed to do was put the part about the law (true or not) and that would be it. This policy is most assuredly NOT for my convenience, and in fact is the exact opposite: this is LESS convenient for me. So stop with that bullshit. While I’m on the grocery store subject, I have to agree with a previous poster about checkout lines. All I want to do is get my shit and check out; I will absolutely put it right back on the shelf if there’s a huge line and one checker. Especially if it’s right before, say, Thanksgiving. I know those pesky food-intensive holidays are VERY hard to predict, but maybe the scheduler could contact someone here on Earth to get help with that. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/63 "2014-05-24T02:56:33Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I feel bad for people that have never been to Chipotle (at least mine) especially if they’re shy. My sister would be too intimidated to ever go back. If they’re not too busy I’ve practically finished ordering before I’ve made it up to the counter. Well, that’s a bit of an exaggeration. They say “HI!!” when I walk in the door and they know that I’ll want a Fajita bowl with brown rice to go by the time I’m up to the glass. Sometime I just want to see ‘slooooow down, maybe I’ll try something else today’. I mean, they only have like 4 things, but I don’t even have time to think and my normal order just comes out of my mouth. > > For me, this is minor, but like I said, a shy person that’s going in for the first time and doesn’t know the menu, I could see them not going back. It’s pretty fast paced. I’ve never gone in one for this reason. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/64 "2014-05-24T03:11:56Z")
> [@Dr.Woo](#): > > I get kind of huffy over “for your convenience” as a reason for a rule or policy. My nearest grocery store has self-checkouts, which I like, but they don’t permit alcohol sales through them for obvious reasons - no one can check ID. That’s fine, I get it. If I’m buying wine or beer I’ll have to wait in line for a checker. But the sign they’ve put up in front of the self checkout says, “For your convenience and in compliance with state law, no alcohol purchases are allowed”. They don’t have an employee monitoring the self-checkouts? At the stores I go to, it’s typically 1 “cashier” per 4 (8, max) self-checkouts. They need someone to be there for when something doesn’t scan or the belt goes crazy or because #9 never senses the correct weight. I only use self-checkouts, and only buy alcohol there. At one major grocery store they never check my ID (I’m 35 but look 19). Usually they have some handheld scanner and call out “You’re good, dude!” and input whatever bypasses the ID check. At the ones that check, they usually have an employee hovering who will run up and enter the birth date on the screen in 15-30 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/65 "2014-05-24T04:43:27Z")
Re: complaints about bagging purchases. I only wish that retailers would train baggers to do logical things like putting the cold stuff together, chemicals separate from foods and fabrics, not cavalierly tossing canned goods on top of the eggs or bread or tomatoes, etc. I’m absolutely OCD about putting my items on the conveyor in groups, because I don’t want to get home and find ruined produce or raw meat juices contaminating other products. I want my cold stuff to be bagged together - if something comes up while I’m lugging the groceries in from the car, or putting them away, I want to be sure I can quickly stash the perishables and safely ignore the other bags while I see to the rest of my life. (In fact, I’m so persnickety about grocery bagging that I complimented the new guy this past week, and then sent an e-mail to corporate, praising him for being good at his job and extremely pleasant.) Most of my other peeves about customer service policies have already been mentioned: being asked every five steps whether I need help (I’ll let you know when I do, thanks;) excessive contact after a purchase; employees who can’t answer my questions _and make no effort to find an answer_ (I understand that every employee doesn’t know everything, but the second half of a reply of “I don’t know” is “Let me find out.”) Other peeves: Being asked “How is everything?” a nanosecond after my food has been delivered at a restaurant, long before I’ve had a chance to sample. Telephone “hold” messages that include 2 minute loops of music, interrupted by “Your call is important to us, please stay on the line for the next available customer service representative,” back to music. For the first ten minutes, every time I hear the voice, I mentally prepare myself for talking to a person. After that, I’m usually focused on something else, and then when a real person finally reaches me, I sound like an idiot as I try to reorient myself. The worst, though, is merchants who take “the customer is always right” as gospel: No, the customer isn’t always right. Some of them are flat-out idiots, some are scammers trying to take advantage, some are just plain bullies. If you make your employees spend 80% of their time trying to grease the squeaky (stupid, bullying, scamming) wheel, while your trouble-free clients waste their time in that ever-growing queue behind the idiots, you’re not helping. The pushy ones will be back, because their method worked last time. I may not be back, because I just don’t have the time or patience to wait in line behind some twat trying to make a minimum wage drone refund an item that clearly shouldn’t be refunded. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/66 "2014-05-26T14:26:56Z")
In anticipation of a June Provincial election, Elections Ontario is running a series of heavily airing ads referencing changes to voter ID requirements. One can assume this is on the taxpayers dime. The ad amounts to a cartoon line drawing and some ‘don’t be worried’ assurances, finishing up with, “You probably have what you need, in your wallet!” Then directs you to their website, appropriately named, ‘wemakevotingeasy’. However, at no point, during this commercial do they ever bother to actually tell you what you DO need! Because, one can only assume, that would make it…what’s the word? EASY! What kind of idiot thought this was a good idea? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/67 "2014-05-26T15:06:12Z")
Up until a few years ago I used MySpace as an avenue to find bands. You could often download songs directly from MySpace. And then they changed it so that you could only put them in your MySpace Player or whatever, that you’d have to be online to listen to. Plus, my DSL isn’t all that fast so it would slow me down a bit even if I were online. I’d be happy to buy music from the artists as well as free downloads, but bands I discover through MySpace are very likely to not have music available for purchase elsewhere. So I just don’t go to MySpace, because I’m sick of being burnt by a really great sounding song that I can’t download or purchase anywhere, just listen to online in hopes that it doesn’t go away. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/68 "2014-05-26T15:50:12Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > I’ve never gone in one for this reason. I hate fast-food places that give you no time or place to stand and look at the menu without holding up the line. Unfortunately, their wish to have to make a fast selection of an upsized, high-profit combo means that the menu is either an unreadable jumble, simply doesn’t list many individual items, or all that plus putting it in a place you can’t read it until you’re basically standing in front of a cashier. Even worse is the same experience in a drive-through, where the ten cars behind you don’t appreciate anything but the fastest bark of your order. Even in a world of directed purchasing, it’s a huge pain in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/69 "2014-05-26T15:52:24Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > But now they have actual credit cards in addition to the charge cards. This is what I have and I love it. No fees, low interest rate (though we pay it off each month), a free annual credit report plus score and cash back via AmEx gift cards. I also get the exact same excellent customer service AND [AmEx adds a year onto manufacturer warranties](http://lifehacker.com/5697141/skip-the-extended-warranty-use-a-good-credit-card-instead) and it’s as close to hassle free as a warranty claim can be. > > So that’s why I think AmEx has wider appeal. Gosh. What a great deal. I wonder why the hundreds and hundreds of gold and platinum Visa/MC cards with similar qualification requirements haven’t thought of all that. :dubious: For free. With 2-5X more acceptance. Within more reasonable merchant terms. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/70 "2014-05-26T16:03:35Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > They still harass you. > > We recently went through this deal with _every single effin’ day_ at exactly the same time AT&T called up and tried to hard-sell us their U-verse thing. Every. Single. Day. THEN it became _multiple times per day_. I don’t blame the service reps, they’re just doing their job. But the company would not understand that > > - we do not have smart phones, therefore, that part of their “bundle” is completely useless. > - we do not have cable > - we do not want cable > - we don’t want your effin’ “bundle” because 2/3 of it is useless to us > - STOP CALLING US!!! > > I finally, after two months a week and three days (yes, I was keeping track) got through to someone who could FINALLY take us off the goddamn phone list. > > Now they’re filling up our mailboxes. > > Thank Og we still have stupidphones or I’m sure they’d be sending us texts all the time. I went through that for a while regarding an extended warranty on my car. Whoever did this spent way more money trying to get me to purchase one than they would ever have made back had I actually bought one. Here’s another thing I haven’t seen yet on this thread: FOX News on a TV, especially if it’s the kind of business that probably shouldn’t even have or need a TV in the first place. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/71 "2014-05-26T16:28:37Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Gosh. What a great deal. I wonder why the hundreds and hundreds of gold and platinum Visa/MC cards with similar qualification requirements haven’t thought of all that. :dubious: > For free. > With 2-5X more acceptance. > Within more reasonable merchant terms. What’s your problem, dude? I was explaining why I think AmEx has more widespread appeal than you seem to think they “should”, not why I think AmEx has more widespread appeal than Visa or MC (because I wouldn’t argue that to begin with). ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/72 "2014-05-26T17:01:41Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > What’s your problem, dude? I was explaining why I think AmEx has more widespread appeal than you seem to think they “should”, not why I think AmEx has more widespread appeal than Visa or MC (because I wouldn’t argue that to begin with). Visa/MC has been offering these “features” on their more-convenient, cheaper and more widely-accepted cards for decades. Scusa me for not being impressed that Amex has caught up… except that most users, the ones who don’t get their Blue card through Costco, still pay an annual fee and face the issue of Amex acceptance. The only plus I hear is that it’s a semi-useful alternate Costco card. If Amex were to stop marketing tomorrow, it would vanish - except perhaps in some sliver market of genuine fast-travelin’ executives. Like all marketing-driven products, it’s probably not the wonder most of its buyers have been convinced it is. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/73 "2014-05-26T17:08:21Z")
> [@Ponch8](#): > > Some gas stations have TV monitors at each pump, forcing you to watch (or at least listen to) ads while you fill your tank. This has cost my local gas station several hundred dollars worth of business. It’s actually a really good gas station – it has a comprehensive variety of coffees for $1.00/cup (iced or hot, any size), actually decent pastries, and friendly staff. And then they put in the new pumps with TV monitors and loud recorded advertisements (for the coffee, which I was going to get anyway). I found I really, really resented being bombarded with ads in this fashion. So I started buying gas elsewhere, even paying considerably more for it. But I still stop and buy their coffee every morning. So…irony abounds. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/74 "2014-05-26T18:19:16Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > You do have to be familiar with the layout - or at least grab one of the little paper maps they give you… I wish more stores had those maps. At Home Depot the other day I needed a native guide to find an item. “Just tell me where it is.” “You’ll never find it.” She was right, and after a block-long stroll through a labyrinth of short aisles and peculiar turns she had me there. Then left it up to me to find my way out. > [@gotpasswords](#): > > I used to live near a gas station that had a peculiar one-way policy, even though it was a regular place with two islands and eight or so pumps with enough room for people to drive around > > I was unaware of the OCD Gas Nazi and as I was about to unscrew my gas cap, they came out yelling at me for going the wrong way. I said “Sorry about that, I’ll go somewhere else.” But with there being no standard of which side of the car they put the gas cap, you often have no choice which way you go. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/75 "2014-05-26T18:22:58Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > This has cost my local gas station several hundred dollars worth of business. It’s actually a really good gas station – it has a comprehensive variety of coffees for $1.00/cup (iced or hot, any size), actually decent pastries, and friendly staff. And then they put in the new pumps with TV monitors and loud recorded advertisements (for the coffee, which I was going to get anyway). I found I really, really resented being bombarded with ads in this fashion. So I started buying gas elsewhere, even paying considerably more for it. > > But I still stop and buy their coffee every morning. So…irony abounds. So you are stopping there anyway and paying more for gas elsewhere, too? My mom would call that, “cutting off your nose to spite your face.” ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/76 "2014-05-26T18:41:11Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > So you are stopping there anyway and paying more for gas elsewhere, too? My mom would call that, “cutting off your nose to spite your face.” I, too, stopped going to gas stations when they added the monitors. There is the annoyance factor from the ads to consider. Generally, I’ll pick the no-ad gas station even if it’s more expensive. To me, there is an added benefit to avoiding ads that makes it worth a higher cost. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/77 "2014-05-26T18:58:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > For a while now, I’ve been using the Comixology app on my iPhone to read comics. It was an ideal way to shop for comics in a lot of ways: you get to the end of one book, you just click a button to buy the next in the series. Browsing new titles, you could preview a few pages, and if it looked good, buy it right there. It was set up to make impulse purchases really, really easy. I spent a lot of money in that app. > > Recently, Amazon bought them, and their first major change to remove in-app purchases. Now you have to launch the browser, go to their website, find the comic you want there, buy it, download it, then find it in the app and finally read it. > > Now, I’m not all “RAWR! OUTRAGE!” about it, but it’s enough of a pain in the ass that I’m much less likely to take a chance on a new book based on the previews. But it’s even dumber than even that. Comixoloxy licensed their storefront tech to both Marvel and DC. I can use their versions of the app, which are identical to the Comixology app, except for content (obviously)… and the in-app store. And since most of the books I buy are from the Big Two (and between them, mostly Marvel) I’ll just buy the books in their apps, and cut Comixology and Amazon out of it completely. > > This whole bullshit was started because (allegedly) Amazon didn’t want to pay 30% of every purchase to Apple. Now, they’re getting 100% of no money at all from me. > > Good job, guys. Amazon did the same thing with their Kindle app. When I first downloaded the app, I could buy titles from within the app itself. They removed that functionality years ago. Now it’s go to the Kindle store in the browser, buy the title, select send to iPhone, open Kindle app, find the title, download to phone. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/78 "2014-05-26T18:58:43Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I, too, stopped going to gas stations when they added the monitors. There is the annoyance factor from the ads to consider. Generally, I’ll pick the no-ad gas station even if it’s more expensive. To me, there is an added benefit to avoiding ads that makes it worth a higher cost. And some marketing ween is staring in disbelief at the sales figures, sputtering, “But… but… everybody watches TV!” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/79 "2014-05-26T19:45:39Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > My examples: I’ve mentioned this before, but the Kia dealer I used before I moved would have the franchise owner, a very old lady, call after each oil change to thank me for using them and ask how things went, etc. It was fine - once - but after 3 or 4 times, the call got old, especially since the calls tended to be fairly early in the morning. I cut way down on visiting them just to avoid the calls. I had the same problem with my Hyundai dealer. The intent is obviously nice, but I have to get an oil change every six weeks. It was ridiculous. It would have bene much better if they’d just called me once a year. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028/80 "2014-05-26T19:56:09Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I, too, stopped going to gas stations when they added the monitors. There is the annoyance factor from the ads to consider. Generally, I’ll pick the no-ad gas station even if it’s more expensive. To me, there is an added benefit to avoiding ads that makes it worth a higher cost. I haven’t seen monitors displaying “advertising messages” at gas stations or grocery stores in years. Perhaps it seemed like a good idea at the time, but the marketing people figured it backfired? Count me as another who will pay an extra penny or five per gallon to avoid those. Now if we could just get rid of them in medical offices and oil-change place waiting rooms, that would be fabulous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-policies-that-discourage-business-do-more-harm-than-good/689028.md?page=5)