# Business that's a front, but not for crime. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 28, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-thats-a-front-but-not-for-crime/656951 "2013-04-28T21:59:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-thats-a-front-but-not-for-crime/656951/41 "2013-04-30T02:01:20Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Jamie Hyneman’s M5 Industries is a front for _Mythbusters._ Or is it _Mythbusters_ is a front for M5? M5 Industries used to be a regular modeling shop for movies and television productions. _Mythbusters_ started out as a sideline. But the series has become so big that M5 no longer does any other work besides _Mythbusters_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-thats-a-front-but-not-for-crime/656951/42 "2013-04-30T02:25:13Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Well, if you present it as your job to the zoning authorities, but aren’t claiming it as such for the purposes of licensing and taxation then, yeah, that probably is a crime or at least an evictable offense. As far as I can tell, my state doesn’t require any license to be a travel agent or a life coach. And I assure you I’ll pay all the appropriate taxes each time money changes hands in exchange for my services; if ever I should fail in that, or start practicing medicine without a license or whatever, then, sure, yeah, evict me for the offense and charge me with a crime that very afternoon – but until my first client hires me, which I’m sure will happen any day now, what haven’t I done? ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-thats-a-front-but-not-for-crime/656951/43 "2013-04-30T02:57:28Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I rent a booth at a small antique mall, and one of the storefronts also touts itself as an “antique store” that’s open by appointment only, but I’ve never seen anyone go in there, and I’m not sure how anyone COULD go in there because the place is packed solid. The owners of the antique mall said they believe the person who rents that space is a hoarder and uses it for her overflow. The building is for sale, and they looked into buying it just so they could kick her out, because they feel this is a fire hazard. Their offer was rejected because the building doesn’t meet modern codes for a commercial building space, and it would cost more to retrofit it than it would to demolish and rebuild. Around here (NYC) it’s not that wierd for “antique stores” to be open by appointment only. They sell to interior decorators and the trade, and they’re not interested in doing retail business. The fire hazard stuff is a whole other kettle of worms. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-thats-a-front-but-not-for-crime/656951/44 "2013-04-30T04:11:31Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > There are game stores whose primary purpose is for a space for a group to play games – selling any is very low on the priority list. > > Brian How would a place like this stay open? Did they sell a lot of food, or charge by the hour, or what? There used to be a place in a small town near the big city where I live that was a combination book store, soda fountain, and gamer’s paradise, KWIM? It closed a while back; I met one of the owners once, and I think he was massively coked up, although I hope I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-thats-a-front-but-not-for-crime/656951/45 "2013-04-30T07:37:15Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > How would a place like this stay open? Did they sell a lot of food, or charge by the hour, or what? We have on in Fresno, they have a monthly membership system. Its $5 a night to come play or $25/mo. A GM membership allows you to reserve tables for like $40/mo. Anyone can use an unused table but GM’s get priority. They also sell various snacks, sodas, photocopies, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-thats-a-front-but-not-for-crime/656951/46 "2013-04-30T08:36:12Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > It’s not uncommon for wealthy people to get a real estate license to hang in someone else’s office and not work at all in the business. As long as they pay their dues, it’s easy to find a broker willing to do it. Why would the wealthy person want to do this? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-thats-a-front-but-not-for-crime/656951/47 "2013-04-30T14:17:01Z")
Easy: Legal tax write-offs. Real estate is one of the easiest ways to say you are working without having an income, only expenses. All of your business expenses (licensing, fees, gas, supplies) can be deducted. You can canvass neighborhoods handing out your cards and claim and deduction. In reference to having an office, in my state of New Jersey, only the broker has to maintain one. An agent can just hang the salesperson’s license there and claim to be working. Both of these things are perfectly legal. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-thats-a-front-but-not-for-crime/656951/48 "2013-04-30T14:30:54Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Easy: Legal tax write-offs. Real estate is one of the easiest ways to say you are working without having an income, only expenses. All of your business expenses (licensing, fees, gas, supplies) can be deducted. You can canvass neighborhoods handing out your cards and claim and deduction. > > In reference to having an office, in my state of New Jersey, only the broker has to maintain one. An agent can just hang the salesperson’s license there and claim to be working. > > Both of these things are perfectly legal. But that’s just throwing money away. Each dollar you spend that way would only take maybe 20-30 cents or so off your taxes. A net loss of 70-80 cents. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-thats-a-front-but-not-for-crime/656951/49 "2013-04-30T14:35:47Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > But that’s just throwing money away. Each dollar you spend that way would only take maybe 20-30 cents or so off your taxes. A net loss of 70-80 cents. Where I see people doing this, it is money they woulda spent anyway. You drive to the grocery store, but “look at the homes you pass” while driving, so deduct the car/gas/time/etc. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-thats-a-front-but-not-for-crime/656951/50 "2013-04-30T14:48:42Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > If those make a loss, they can become illegal if you attempt to claim expenses and losses in a way the IRS doesn’t like. Basically, you can’t claim side expenses except against a profit. If you buy $1,000 worth of supplies that go into, say, lace doilies you sell for a net $500, you can claim the cost of goods expense - but you would need to be very careful writing off office rent, phones, travel etc. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-thats-a-front-but-not-for-crime/656951/51 "2013-04-30T15:11:32Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Where I see people doing this, it is money they woulda spent anyway. You drive to the grocery store, but “look at the homes you pass” while driving, so deduct the car/gas/time/etc. And that, of course, is perfectly illegal. (Not to say that people don’t get away with it.) ---
**Author:** ![Mavis\_Topholese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7feea3/32.png) [@Mavis\_Topholese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mavis_Topholese)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-thats-a-front-but-not-for-crime/656951/52 "2013-04-30T17:14:08Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I rent a booth at a small antique mall, and one of the storefronts also touts itself as an “antique store” that’s open by appointment only, but I’ve never seen anyone go in there, and I’m not sure how anyone COULD go in there because the place is packed solid. The owners of the antique mall said they believe the person who rents that space is a hoarder and uses it for her overflow. The building is for sale, and they looked into buying it just so they could kick her out, because they feel this is a fire hazard. Their offer was rejected because the building doesn’t meet modern codes for a commercial building space, and it would cost more to retrofit it than it would to demolish and rebuild. We spend too much time in antique malls and on several occasions I’ve seen booths that seem to be justifications for hoarding. Merchandise packed so tight nothing can be examined, prices missing or way out of proportion to actual value (we call it the Crazy Grandma Price Guide syndrome, in that they are always over-charging for something and claiming that this is what “the book” says it’s worth, well, “the book” is the Crazy Grandma Price Guide) and if you do happen to wrest something out of the hoard and try to actually purchase it, first you’re given a lecture on how you’re merely going to take this valuable item and sell it on eBay. It’s obvious that commerce is merely an afterthought for some of these “dealers”. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-thats-a-front-but-not-for-crime/656951/53 "2013-04-30T18:59:20Z")
> [@Mavis\_Topholese](#): > > We spend too much time in antique malls and on several occasions I’ve seen booths that seem to be justifications for hoarding. Merchandise packed so tight nothing can be examined, prices missing or way out of proportion to actual value (we call it the Crazy Grandma Price Guide syndrome, in that they are always over-charging for something and claiming that this is what “the book” says it’s worth, well, “the book” is the Crazy Grandma Price Guide) and if you do happen to wrest something out of the hoard and try to actually purchase it, first you’re given a lecture on how you’re merely going to take this valuable item and sell it on eBay. It’s obvious that commerce is merely an afterthought for some of these “dealers”. I’m on a waiting list at a large mall that has several booths like this. The items aren’t even on display; they’re simply dumped and piled waist-high. :rolleyes: And when they call me, I’m going to decline, assuming the place is still open, because I live in a city where we’ve had extensive flooding in recent days, and this mall got water several feet deep.☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/business-thats-a-front-but-not-for-crime/656951.md?page=2)