# Busting the Moon Hoax believers **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 21, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935 "2010-08-21T02:00:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/41 "2010-08-23T16:28:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Again, no, Hubble doesn’t really have the magnification power to resolve little things like the flags planted on the moon. Even if it did, that doesn’t mean that using the Hubble to look at stuff people left on the moon is a good use of its time. Mr. Neville uses HST (and spends a great deal of time writing proposals for time on it). He says that, right now, there’s at least twice as much demand for time using Hubble as there is actual time to use Hubble. There are [opportunity costs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost) to using Hubble for anything. Is possibly convincing a few moon hoaxers that they are wrong more valuable than the science that could otherwise be done with that time on Hubble? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/42 "2010-08-23T19:51:59Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Many, many thing in the sky aren’t too SMALL to see, they’re too DIM. The classic example always used is the spectacular Andromeda Galaxy: > > [Size Comparison of Andromeda Galaxy and the Moon in the Nightsky](http://spluch.blogspot.com/2007/01/size-comparison-of-andromeda-galaxy-and.html) I just wanted to pop in and say this thread wins because of that link. I had never seen that before and it’s pretty amazing. Thanks RickJay. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/43 "2010-08-23T19:59:01Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > That’s always been my question to moon hoax believers – Why would the Russians “dink the NASA koolaide”, as it were. Maybe all hoaxers are Soviet spies? I need to interrogate Anna Chapman to see if she’s a hoaxer. It’ll take me a few nights…err days. All for science, of course. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/44 "2010-08-23T20:21:15Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Sorry. I didn’t know a LRO was a satellite. I assumed it was one of those things they sent to Mars and Saturn’s Cassini spacecraft . Cassini is in permanent orbit around Saturn, so it’s a satellite, the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is also a satellite. ---
**Author:** ![FREQ\_FORCE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@FREQ\_FORCE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FREQ_FORCE)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/45 "2010-08-23T20:59:02Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > > [@RickJay](#): > > > > Again, no, Hubble doesn’t really have the magnification power to resolve little things like the flags planted on the moon. > > Even if it did, that doesn’t mean that using the Hubble to look at stuff people left on the moon is a good use of its time. Mr. Neville uses HST (and spends a great deal of time writing proposals for time on it). He says that, right now, there’s at least twice as much demand for time using Hubble as there is actual time to use Hubble. There are [opportunity costs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost) to using Hubble for anything. Is possibly convincing a few moon hoaxers that they are wrong more valuable than the science that could otherwise be done with that time on Hubble? This. Scope time on Hubble is in extremely high demand, and the waiting list is astoundingly long. For those fortunate enough to have access to Hubble, their time is much better spent on scientific endeavors far more interesting than catering to the demands of the reality-impaired. Aside from that, and without going into detail about the mathematics for determining scope resolution, the equipment left behind by the Apollo missions would have to be the size of a football field to even appear as a dot on Hubble’s optics. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/46 "2010-08-23T21:08:04Z")
Why would a Moon hoax believer believe that the government would fake a Moon landing, but wouldn’t fake data from Hubble or a satellite? They’d find some excuse to say the Hubble or satellite data was fake, and we’d be right back where we started. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/47 "2010-08-23T21:56:21Z")
I was SO disappointed in the LRO pics. I was expecting to actually see something & if I were a Hoaxer, I’d laugh in the face of anyone who showed me those as proof. Without resorting to physical violence, this is another way to deal with a Moon Hoaxer- the way I did on Facebook… Candice- the moon landings had to be real. It was a Light Masonic ritual enterprise to restore the Divine Order out of the chaos the 1960’s had been plunged into by the Dark Magick (Crowleyan?) ritual sacrifice of JFK. Buzz Aldrin & Neal Armstrong were 33 degree Masons & reasserted the authority of The Great Architect in their conquest of the moon for that most Light Masonic of countries- the USA. The Dark Magick crowd tried to undo it by having the hippie freak they controlled in L.A. (Manson) commission the Helter Skelter murders, but that couldn’t undo the White Magick of the moon landing. Another failed attempt by the Dark Magick folk was the ritual slaying of Reagan the day he was to meet with the Trilateral Commission. Finally, they did succeed in reasserting Dark Chaos with the 9-11 attacks. Bush tried to undo it by seizing the Babylonian Stargates of Marduk & Ishtar (the real reason for the Iraqi invasion) but his good intentions were not enough & the Chaos continued with our economic near-collapse. We have a window of time for a powerful rite of White Magick to restore Divine Order, but that window closes (of course) on Dec. 21, 2012. I got no response from her, but the other chat participants were highly entertained. The great thing is that I came up with that in five minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_Astronaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bad\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/48 "2010-08-23T21:58:08Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As it turns out the Cold War also gives us one very good reason why there was no hoax, the Russians would had loved to broadcast to the third world that the USA was also lying about the moon landing if that had been the case. Why would they have cared about the third world? Surely they would have broadcast it to the second world (their own - the communist sphere) and if possible the first world (the west). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/49 "2010-08-23T22:21:00Z")
> [@Bad\_Astronaut](#): > > > [@GIGObuster](#): > > > > As it turns out the Cold War also gives us one very good reason why there was no hoax, the Russians would had loved to broadcast to the third world that the USA was also lying about the moon landing if that had been the case. > > Why would they have cared about the third world? Because those were the battleground states, to use a modern term. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/50 "2010-08-24T06:12:50Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > > [@Derleth](#): > > > > This isn’t even an argument, let alone a proof. Moon rocks are much better than simple _ad hominem_, regardless of how pitiful the _hominem_ in question is. > > Not really. ‘Those rocks are fakes. I’ve got a rock like that out in my driveway’. > > This is a case where the true disbelievers have so little to gain. I think Zebra has identified the root cause. It goes something like this. (after several minutes of hearing their evidence and debunking it) Zebra: Then you must think I’m an idiot. Moon Hoax Nut: I said no such thing. Z: No really, you’ve told me what it took for you to see the truth and I can’t see it. You are much more clever than me because I’m being fooled. MHN: No I mean- Z: Come on. I believe we went to the moon. If I have been fooled, then I am a fool. So are most of the people on the planet. Except you. MHN: I never said- Z: You’re so freaking clever. Seeing through those lies. MHN: (walks away) ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/51 "2010-08-24T10:36:36Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > I was SO disappointed in the LRO pics. I was expecting to actually see something & if I were a Hoaxer, I’d laugh in the face of anyone who showed me those as proof. Did you see the more recent LRO pics? The first ones that hit the media were taken from a higher altitude, before it was in its final orbit. The newer pics are pretty damn impressive - I mean, you can actually see the [trails of astro-footprints](http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/files/2009/07/lro_apollo14site.jpg). How much more do you want? Also now in [3D](http://news.softpedia.com/news/LRO-Images-Apollo-14-Landing-Site-in-3D-133643.shtml). 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Ironcross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ironcross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ironcross)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/52 "2010-08-24T12:52:54Z")
Good Lord one comment about a friggin rock and the Internet trolls appear like bugs to a light. Thank God I didn’t mention the times I heard the shuttle busting through the sound barrier - I’ll be chastised and sent to the Iron Maiden. The whole point of the post wasn’t to proof defiantly the hoaxers are wrong it was why in the HELL can’t the Hubble or even some other method show the debris left on the moon. And yes, I do think it would be severely interesting to novices to see that sort of thing. Thank you all for your comments ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/53 "2010-08-24T16:16:05Z")
> [@Ironcross](#): > > why in the HELL can’t the Hubble or even some other method show the debris left on the moon. Because the Hubble’s too small to resolve something the size of what people left on the Moon at the distance of the Moon. > [@](#): > > And yes, I do think it would be severely interesting to novices to see that sort of thing. Thank you all for your comments The LRO photos didn’t make much of a splash in the news. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/54 "2010-08-24T16:46:30Z")
> [@Livardo](#): > > [The only proper way to deal with a moon hoaxer](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOo6aHSY8hU) This has been and continues to be one of my favorite video clips ever. > [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > There are different categories of moon hoax believers. At one end of the spectrum are the hard core conspiracy theorists, and at the other the casual ones who saw a bad TV programme. The latter’s position is based on ignorance, so it’s not impossible to change their mind. I’ve had some success with this. Exactly. I saw one of those shows when I was somewhere in my teens, and I thought, “Hrm, those are some interesting points. I’d like to see some responses to them from experts.” (And the fact that the show \*didn’t \*have any responses from experts was, in and of itself, pretty suspicious.) And every claim was handily debunked when I actually found resources that addressed them. But if no one with a better understanding of the science involved had bothered to take the time to explain why the hoax-proponents were wrong, I might have continued to think that there was a chance they had valid points. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/55 "2010-08-24T16:51:49Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Without resorting to physical violence, this is another way to deal with a Moon Hoaxer- the way I did on Facebook… > > I got no response from her, but the other chat participants were highly entertained. So you amused people who already agreed with you and drove off rather than convinced or converted someone who didn’t. Yep, that’s a triumph, all right. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/56 "2010-08-24T18:07:26Z")
> [@Ironcross](#): > > Good Lord one comment about a friggin rock and the Internet trolls appear like bugs to a light. Thank God I didn’t mention the times I heard the shuttle busting through the sound barrier - I’ll be chastised and sent to the Iron Maiden. The whole point of the post wasn’t to proof defiantly the hoaxers are wrong it was why in the HELL can’t the Hubble or even some other method show the debris left on the moon. And yes, I do think it would be severely interesting to novices to see that sort of thing. Thank you all for your comments What internet trolls? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/57 "2010-08-24T18:57:37Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > That’s always been my question to moon hoax believers – Why would the Russians “dink the NASA koolaide”, as it were. Has anyone carefully read a moon hoax truther explanation for why the USSR didn’t conclusivly prove that NASA didn’t go to the moon, and release that evidence? Yes, I have. The Russians were in on the conspiracy. The rabbit hole of stoopid goes deeper than you think. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/58 "2010-08-24T19:20:48Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > > [@Arkcon](#): > > > > That’s always been my question to moon hoax believers – Why would the Russians “dink the NASA koolaide”, as it were. Has anyone carefully read a moon hoax truther explanation for why the USSR didn’t conclusivly prove that NASA didn’t go to the moon, and release that evidence? > > Yes, I have. > > The Russians were in on the conspiracy. > > The rabbit hole of stoopid goes deeper than you think. It’s turtles all the way down. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/59 "2010-09-29T02:33:44Z")
from the net * * * New Australian footage of Neil Armstrong’s moon walk Sep 28 Long-lost footage of Neil Armstrong descending the ladder of the Apollo 11 lunar module will be screened in public for the first time in Sydney next week, a prominent astronomer told AFP. The footage runs for a few minutes and is considered to be some of the best footage of the historic 1969 moonwalk, but the film was lost in archives for many years and was badly damaged when found, said John Sarkissian. It depicts the first few minutes of Armstrong’s descent which was recorded in Australia as NASA was still scrambling for a signal, showing a far clearer image than was initially screened worldwide. Telescopes in remote Australia played a key role in the Apollo 11 mission, including provision of the television signal, after Armstrong decided to attempt the moonwalk early, putting the United States just beyond the horizon. Sarkissian – historian and astronomer in charge of the Australian side of the recordings restoration project – said the unseen minutes were the “best quality of Armstrong descending the ladder.” “NASA were using the Goldstone (California) station signal, which had its settings wrong, but in the signals being received by the Australian stations you can actually see Armstrong.” “In what people have seen before you can barely see Armstrong at all, you can see something black – that was his leg.” The segment which runs for “just a few minutes” will be screened at the awards night of Australian Geographic magazine next Wednesday, at which Apollo 11 astronaut Buzz Aldrin will be the chief guest. “When we heard Buzz was going to be the guest of honour we thought ‘what a great opportunity’,” Sarkissian said. The Armstrong footage, which has only previously been seen by Apollo veterans and other members of the astronomy community, would form part of a highlights reel of restored, digitised moonwalk footage at the awards, he added. There was a “long detective story” involved in the search for the footage and Sarkissian said it took painstaking frame by frame work to shift the material from the deteriorating black and white film to digitial format. “It was very damaged tape as well, that segment of Armstrong at the beginning,” he said. Digitising the recording was “significant in the space flight history context” allowing it to be preserved and copied for future generations, said Sarkissian. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935/60 "2010-09-29T04:12:39Z")
Sounds like it’s this[footage](http://www.universetoday.com/74531/long-lost-apollo-footage-was-actually-released-in-2009/), available for a year now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/busting-the-moon-hoax-believers/550935.md?page=4)