# But Bernie, Bernie Still **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 24, 2024, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248 "2024-06-24T02:58:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/101 "2024-06-26T17:25:39Z")
I know we’re talking about the primary. What did the DNC do to help her? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/102 "2024-06-26T17:27:35Z")
That’s a lot, here’s a good start: - [Inside Hillary Clinton’s Secret Takeover of the DNC](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774/) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/103 "2024-06-26T17:29:59Z")
Yes, the DNC was tilted massively to Hillary. They really tried and wanted her to win the primary. I accept all that. I’m asserting that they were so obvious, and so incompetent, that their efforts did nothing but reveal their own bias and increase resentment of Hillary. What, specifically, do you assert the DNC did that actually helped her beat Sanders? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/104 "2024-06-26T17:36:27Z")
Money mostly. That’s no small thing at all. It’s almost everything. Lining up superdelegates. Also, Brazile gave Clinton questions ahead of a debate with Sanders. I suggest you read about it. It’s actually interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/105 "2024-06-26T17:43:42Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Money mostly. That’s no small thing at all. It’s almost everything. Quoting from your article. Was it this money ? > [@](#): > > He told me the Democratic Party was broke and $2 million in debt. Or this money? > [@](#): > > Hillary for America (the campaign) and the Hillary Victory Fund (its joint fundraising vehicle with the DNC) had taken care of 80 percent of the remaining debt in 2016, about $10 million or this money? > [@](#): > > the $82 million they had amassed from the extravagant fund-raisers Hillary’s campaign was holding ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/106 "2024-06-26T17:45:58Z")
I’ve read about it for years. It’s obvious they tried. It’s also obvious to me that the super delegates were already for Hillary, and any monetary gain from controlling the DNC was minimal. Debate questions maybe helped in an extremely trivial way, and then when this incompetence was revealed publicly, increased resentment way more than it helped her. Here’s how I see it - the DNC was an arm of the Hillary campaign. If they hadn’t controlled the DNC then the DNC would have been a bystander and it would have been the Hillary campaign that did everything the DNC did (including getting the debate questions). It would have been cleaner and with less resentment and I think Hillary would have won the primary by a larger margin. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/107 "2024-06-26T17:46:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Lining up superdelegates. Are these the superdelegates who are long time Democrats and have been working with Hillary for 20 years? They needed “lining up” to support her over a person who joined the party 3 months ago? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/108 "2024-06-26T17:46:49Z")
> **[Court Concedes DNC Had the Right to Rig Primaries Against Sanders](https://observer.com/2017/08/court-admits-dnc-and-debbie-wasserman-schulz-rigged-primaries-against-sanders/)** > > The court affirmed that the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz held a palpable bias in favor Hillary Clinton. You can wiggle and dance all you want. The DNC was in the bag for Clinton. And no amount of nitpicking will change that and it’s not ok and not unimportant. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Are these the superdelegates who are long time Democrats and have been working with Hillary for 20 years? They needed “lining up” to support her over a person who joined the party 3 months ago? They are not supposed to be there as your buddies. They are supposed to be there for the best interests of the party. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/109 "2024-06-26T17:50:03Z")
The biggest reason Bernie supporters are as agitated and angry as they are is because they see no valid reason why their proposals can’t or shouldn’t be implemented. Compromise is like giving away half of the good for no discernible reason. In their minds, if a $20/hour minimum wage is what’s truly best for America, then why accept anything less? That would be like a football coach telling fans that his team only intends to score 4 touchdowns per game when (in the minds of fans) the team is totally capable of scoring 7 per game. And so when centrist Democrats tell them what, to their ears, sounds like “We could achieve 100% good but we’ve decided to go with only 60% good,” it just about gives the Bernie Bros an aneurysm. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/110 "2024-06-26T17:55:00Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You can wiggle and dance all you want. You didn’t answer the question. Was the “Money” you said the DNC helped her with the money they owed to other people, the money she gave them to help settle their debts, or the millions she raised at her own fundraisers? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > They are not supposed to be there as your buddies. They are supposed to be there for the best interests of the party. I missed the part of the article with Bernie gave the DNC anything to help their mission. What did Bernie do in the 2 weeks he was part of the Democratic Party to better the interests of the Party? Did he even promise to not declare himself an Independent the day of his inauguration? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/111 "2024-06-26T17:58:16Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > You didn’t answer the question. I have provided many, many cites throughout this thread supporting my case. You have provided none. I think it is time you support your case. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/112 "2024-06-26T18:09:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Compromise is like giving away half of the good for no discernible reason. No, compromise is how differing sides arrive at a solution that’s better than nothing. It used to be the cornerstone of successful politics. > [@Velocity](#): > > In their minds, if a $20/hour minimum wage is what’s truly best for America, then why accept anything less? Because they might be able to get $17, which is a hell of lot better than $12. I know _you’re_ not advocating this “no compromise” stance (are you?), but American politics really started to fall apart when the GOP decided “compromise” was a dirty word. It’s no better when the Bernie Bros. say the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/113 "2024-06-26T18:18:08Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I have provided many, many cites throughout this thread supporting my case. I think I was unclear. Let’s try again. You said the DNC helped Hillary Clinton with money. I’m asking for clarification, because the article you cited said that the DNC was flat broke, and Hillary gave them $10 million to help with their debts, and held lavish fundraisers that brought in $80 million more. What did Bernie do? Oh yes, he did [this.](https://www.cnn.com/2016/04/21/politics/2016-bernie-sanders-fundraising-hillary-clinton/index.html) > [@](#): > > Sanders has his own joint fundraising committee with the DNC, the “Bernie Victory Fund,” but as of March that account remained essentially inactive. But, yeah, tell me how the DNC was being unfair by supporting the person funneling tens of millions of dollars into their empty bank account instead of the person who complained about Hillary getting some of the money Hillary raised. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/114 "2024-06-26T19:26:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The DNC was in the bag for Clinton. And no amount of nitpicking will change that and it’s not ok and not unimportant. Who is even disputing this? What we’re disputing is whether being “in the bag” mattered. I hold it didn’t, because DWS and the DNC were such a pathetic and incompetent organization. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/115 "2024-06-26T19:44:37Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Clinton and the DNC rigged the game against Sanders from the get-go. See, the conspiracy theory that the DNC has any such power. Yes, one member of the DNC did slip the Clinton campaign the questions to the debate. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Further, your Sanders supporters into hate _hate_ **hate** for Hillary were never _never_ **never** going to vote for Hillary. They were conservative voters who did not like Trump but felt they saw something in Sanders. No, they were progressives. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Because he had the temerity to run for office? Because he didnt withdraw and back Clinton after he had lost- waiting two months + to do that. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > His supporters are STILL attacking her. Yep. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The DNC tried to rig it, See, again the conspiracy theory that the DNC can even do any such thing. > [@bordelond](#): > > Is it possible to mathematically back out the effects of superdelegates and work out whether or not Sanders could credibly have won the 2016 Democratic Party nomination in a world without superdelegates? Yes, Clinton was well ahead in regular delegates. Not form the start- Sanders did well in caucuses. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They certainly tried, but what did they do that actually helped her, at least more than the obvious favoritism which pushed many to resent her? One staffer leaked the questions to one debate. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/116 "2024-06-26T19:46:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > See, again the conspiracy theory that the DNC can even do any such thing. They can’t, or at least the 2016 DNC couldn’t, because they were so incompetent. But they tried – DWS and the DNC organization were quite clearly biased towards Hillary. Because of their pathetic incompetence, they failed miserably, and Hillary won the primary in spite of their incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/117 "2024-06-26T19:47:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They can’t, or at least the 2016 DNC couldn’t, because they were so incompetent. But they tried – DWS and the DNC organization were quite clearly biased towards Hillary. Sure, and why not? Clinton was a Democrat. But the DNC has no such authority or power. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/118 "2024-06-26T21:30:39Z")
So…Clinton co-opted the DNC so she could pay them millions? Is that your stance? If so, Clinton frankly deserved to lose. That’s a special kind of stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/119 "2024-06-27T01:01:25Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > So…Clinton co-opted the DNC so she could pay them millions? Is that your stance? Is that a stance or just a fact? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248/120 "2024-06-27T01:26:26Z")
Does it make a difference? I suspect @Cheesesteak is giving me busy-work. I can’t imagine Clinton co-opted the DNC so she cold write million dollar checks to them. I’ll leave it to others to determine if that is what she was actually doing. Personally, I think she did it to benefit her campaign. YMMV [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-bernie-bernie-still/1003248.md?page=7)