# But...Obama Was Going To Take All The Guns! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405 "2013-01-16T18:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/441 "2013-02-03T16:55:35Z")
“Carnivorous wookie machine gun! Neoplastic conundrum homophonic infundibulum! Ki-tang, ki-tang, ki-tang!” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/442 "2013-02-04T01:12:42Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Really, what did he say? I was mocking you, dummy, for referring to him as “Wayne.” ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/443 "2013-02-04T03:10:41Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I was mocking you, dummy, for referring to him as “Wayne.” Oh really? I was mocking you back, dipshit. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/444 "2013-02-04T05:42:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And you know very well _why_. :dubious: Are you under the impression that states rights=slavery in 1789? Don’t be coy, just say what you mean. > [@](#): > > Scroll up and remind yourself why you brought it up - _as an example of why citizens need to be armed_. Then, tell us what would have \*actually \*happened in the only real-world example of justification you can present. 'Kay? WTF are you going on about? Are you trying to say that an armed citizenry with 300 million guns couldn’t resist a tyrannical government? Is THAT what you are trying to say? Just say what you mean, its getting tedious trying to tease out the words you would use if you only had the courage to do so. > [@](#): > > First, tell us how that would happen outside some paranoid fantasy dystopia you’re fondly caressing, \*then \*you can ask to be taken seriously. Like I said, I don’t think it can happen here any time soon but history is replete with examples of democracies going tyrannical. How many examples would it take to convince you that this could happen? > [@](#): > > And don’t post drunk, either. I see why you keep posting this. Its the most effective argument you have been able to come up with. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/445 "2013-02-04T11:08:47Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Oh really? I was mocking you back, dipshit. Ah, the “I know you are but what am I” gambit. Your wit knows no bounds. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/446 "2013-02-04T13:02:26Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Like I said, I don’t think it can happen here any time soon but history is replete with examples of democracies going tyrannical. How many examples would it take > to convince you that this could happen? I’m trying to think of examples: Nazi Germany, where the Nazis eased gun control among non-Jews. Other democracies to go tyrannical- I don’t know, maybe Spain for a time. Can’t think of other 20th century and later examples. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/447 "2013-02-04T13:25:10Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Ah, the “I know you are but what am I” gambit. Your wit knows no bounds. No, it’s the “what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.” “I know you are but what am I” is said straight up in response to an insult. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/448 "2013-02-04T15:33:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Are you under the impression that states rights=slavery in 1789? Don’t be coy, just say what you mean. Effectively, yes. That was the cover story. Don’t pretend otherwise. Later, “states’ rights” came to mean Jim Crow, then segregation, now it means economic policies that disproportionately affect the colored. IOW you damn well ought to know your own country’s history a little better than you do. > [@](#): > > WTF are you going on about? YOUR assertion that the Japanese-American roundup is an example of why citizens need to be armed. The nonsensicality of your own damn argument is your own damn problem. The fact that you don’t even remember you said it is another reason not to post drunk. > [@](#): > > Like I said, I don’t think it can happen here any time soon but history is replete with examples of democracies going tyrannical. How many examples would it take to convince you that this could happen? More than you’ve provided, which add up to zero so far. So, can you support your own damn argument on this subject, either? :rolleyes: You’re really not very good at this. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/449 "2013-02-04T19:02:28Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That was the cover story. :dubious: Are we posting from the same timeline? In my universe, however flawed or inconsistent the Framers were, they really did care about liberty, at least by the standards they knew and without the benefit of hindsight. You sound like your Framers were proto-Nazis and all that stuff in the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights was just cynical propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/450 "2013-02-04T19:17:24Z")
Its not an either/or. Part of the genius of our Constitution, the “checks and balances”, is born from the subtle truth that the Framers didn’t trust each other any further than Al Hamilton could throw “Little Jimmy” Madison. About eight feet, but I digress… As a general rule of history, the privileged and comfortable are at great pains to ensure that radical government change is not _too_ radical, that the social order is not upset. Nonetheless, there are glimmers of Tom Paine scattered throughout, and the Constitution, for all its flaws, is a wondrous experiment in governance. Feet of clay, each and every one, and flawed. But, oh my, how much worse it could have been! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/451 "2013-02-04T21:48:01Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > :dubious: Are we posting from the same timeline? In my universe, however flawed or inconsistent the Framers were, they really did care about liberty, at least by the standards they knew and without the benefit of hindsight. Which would be the reason for all the compromises put in to protect slavery and slaveowners, right? :dubious: Really, read the original text sometime. Liberty, as you and they call it, was meant only for wealthy white men. It was up to later generations, including ours, to fix that problem, in painful steps. Or, as Samuel Johnson rightly asked, “How is it that we hear the loudest yelps for liberty among the drivers of negroes?” Got an answer for him? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/452 "2013-02-05T15:38:34Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m trying to think of examples: Nazi Germany, where the Nazis eased gun control among non-Jews. Other democracies to go tyrannical- I don’t know, maybe Spain for a time. Can’t think of other 20th century and later examples. The events surrounding WWII are the most obvious examples in the 20th century. Democracies under stress can devolve. Many people in power are more concerned with their power than our democracy. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Effectively, yes. That was the cover story. Don’t pretend otherwise. Later, “states’ rights” came to mean Jim Crow, then segregation, now it means economic policies that disproportionately affect the colored. IOW you damn well ought to know your own country’s history a little better than you do. I think you are rewriting our country’s history to make your point. People were concerned about states rights because theyw ere concnered about handing over their sovereignty to a central government. They were concerned about a tyranny from the center. > **[States' rights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_rights)** > > Defunct > Newspapers > Journals But the concept of the right of the second amendment right in the Second Amendment is a bit different. “Although there is little doubt that the writers of the Second Amendment were heavily influenced by the English Bill of Rights, it is a matter of interpretation as to whether they were intent on preserving the power to regulate arms to the states over the federal government (as the English Parliament had reserved for itself against the monarch) or whether it was intent on creating a new right akin to the right of others written into the Constitution (as the Supreme Court recently decided).” > **[Second Amendment to the United States Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)** > > The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right to keep and bear arms. It was ratified on December 15, 1791, along with nine other articles of the United States Bill of Rights. In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Supreme Court affirmed that the right belongs to individuals, for self-defense in the home, while also including, as dicta, that the right is not unlimited and does not preclude the existence of certain long-standing The Second Amend... I think that part of the right in the second amendment was a right retained by the states to keep a militia. This was the interpretation that permitted places like DC (and Chicago) to impose severe restrictions on firearms, until heller et al declared that teh right was an individual right as well. > [@](#): > > YOUR assertion that the Japanese-American roundup is an example of why citizens need to be armed. MY assertion was that our government is imperfect, that tyranny is not as far fetched as you seem to think. You like to make things up don’t you? > [@](#): > > More than you’ve provided, which add up to zero so far. So, can you support your own damn argument on this subject, either? :rolleyes: > > You’re really not very good at this. /sigh. never mind. yes you are smart > **[Pakled](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Pakled)** > > The Pakleds were a rotund humanoid species native to a planet known to them as Pakled Planet. The Pakleds were a humanoid species with a distinctive appearance. They had a round, mostly bald head with large brows covering much of their sloping... ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/453 "2013-02-05T16:22:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The events surrounding WWII are the most obvious examples in the 20th century. Democracies under stress can devolve. Many people in power are more concerned with their power than our democracy. Ah yes … We need to be armed to the teeth because …Hitler! :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > People were concerned about states rights because theyw ere concnered about handing over their sovereignty to a central government. They were concerned about a tyranny from the center. Gee, whatever could the Southern states who were pushing for that have been worried might happen? Hmm, thinkthinkthink … :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > I think that part of the right in the second amendment was a right retained by the states to keep a militia. Also commonly called a slave patrol. But there was quite some prissiness about actually putting the word slavery in the Constitution; that would have made the true motives clear. > [@](#): > > MY assertion was that our government is imperfect, that tyranny is not as far fetched as you seem to think. And you went on to assert that that’s why the populace needs to be armed against it. You then gave the Japanese-Americans in WW2 as an example. But you won’t go on to tell us how guns would have helped them, will you? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > You like to make things up don’t you? Did you realize that whatever you’ve posted in the past is still there? And that anyone, including you, can scroll up and read for themselves? This Internet stuff is amazing. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/454 "2013-02-05T16:34:34Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And you went on to assert that that’s why the populace needs to be armed against it. You then gave the Japanese-Americans in WW2 as an example. But you won’t go on to tell us how guns would have helped them, will you? They would have held off the entire US Army long enough for tens of thousands of armed freedom-loving, government-fearing patriots to come to their defence. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/455 "2013-02-05T16:43:19Z")
Sure. That’s just what happened at Ruby Ridge and Waco too, didn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/456 "2013-02-05T16:47:16Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Sure. That’s just what happened at Ruby Ridge and Waco too, didn’t it? Absolutely. I remember it all going down precisely like that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/457 "2013-02-06T03:24:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Ah yes … We need to be armed to the teeth because …Hitler! :rolleyes: You asked for examples of when democracies descended into tyranny and I give you an d example now you think that I believe that is the only reason to want a gun? I thought I had already said that I don’t really buy the whole defense of liberty argument (not in my lifetime) but at some point in the future it may be a real concern. > [@](#): > > Gee, whatever could the Southern states who were pushing for that have been worried might happen? Hmm, thinkthinkthink … :rolleyes: You got a cite for the notion that it was only southern states pushing for the second amendment? > [@](#): > > Also commonly called a slave patrol. But there was quite some prissiness about actually putting the word slavery in the Constitution; that would have made the true motives clear. Have you ever heard of the minutemen? Or are you just fishing for reasons to vilify the second amendment? Are you just parroting the historical perspectives of a radio talk show host and psychotherapist? > **[The Second Amendment was Ratified to Preserve Slavery](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/15/1179307/-The-Second-Amendment-was-Ratified-to-Preserve-Slavery)** > > This is the title of a very interesting article at Truthout . > > The real reason the Second Amendment was ratified, and why it says "State" instead of "... He has been pretty thoroughly debunked as someone who is simply rewriting history and doing his own cause no favors. Like I have said before, when it comes to the second amendment, the liberals are like Republicans, they believe things regardless of the facts. [http://www.theroot.com/views/2nd-amendment-passed-protect-slavery-no](http://www.theroot.com/views/2nd-amendment-passed-protect-slavery-no) > [@](#): > > And you went on to assert that that’s why the populace needs to be armed against it. You then gave the Japanese-Americans in WW2 as an example. No you’re wrong again. Show me where I said “if only the Japanese had guns during the internment, it would have never happened” I was giving you proof that our government is as capable of tyranny as any other government. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/458 "2013-02-06T15:33:01Z")
Jesse Jackson says banning semi-automatic assault weapons is a matter of national security, because they can be used to shoot down airplanes and blow up railroads. [No, I’m not joking:](http://www.wbal.com/article/96930/37/template-story/Rev) ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/459 "2013-02-06T15:52:09Z")
Well, to be fair to Mr. Dipshit Jackson, I did blow up the moon once with a semi-automatic assault weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/460 "2013-02-06T16:31:57Z")
You’d have a better chance of bringing down a plane using mutated sea bass with [freaking lasers](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21348906). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405.md?page=24)