# But...Obama Was Going To Take All The Guns! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405 "2013-01-16T18:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/81 "2013-01-16T22:33:57Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Your wrong by an order of magnitude. The US averages 51 lightening deaths a year. He’s also about 33% low on his estimate of deaths due to long guns ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/82 "2013-01-16T22:37:17Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Depends on the details. For example, when the background check law went into effect, there was concern it would turn into a de facto registraton scheme. So by law they were only permitted to keep the records for a certain amount of time - 72 hours maybe? - for auditing purposes, then they had to be destroyed. > > Several attempts by democrats have been to keep this data anyway and to use it to build a registry of gun owners, in contradiction to the law and to the promises made when the background check system was enacted. If Obama changes that policy, it would certainly count to me as an inappropriate use of executive power. You appear to oppose a gun registration scheme. Why is that, specifically? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/83 "2013-01-16T22:38:34Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > He’s also about 33% low on his estimate of deaths due to long guns Numerical arguments are a lot easier to make if you make up the numbers! Somewhat less convincing, however. ---
**Author:** ![ExcitedIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ea5d25/32.png) [@ExcitedIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExcitedIdiot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/84 "2013-01-16T22:41:10Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > He’s also about 33% low on his estimate of deaths due to long guns Also, there is no law that can be passed to ban lighting strikes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/85 "2013-01-16T23:02:50Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > And when is Obama going to address the scourge of video games terrorizing our neighborhood! [Don’t you wish that were a joke?](http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_22385724/obama-unveils-500-million-gun-violence-package) > [@](#): > > The president’s plan does little to address violent images in video games, movies and entertainment, beyond asking the CDC to study their impact on gun crimes. Some pro-gun lawmakers who are open to addressing stricter arms legislation have insisted they would do so only in tandem with recommendations for addressing violence in entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/86 "2013-01-16T23:04:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, I said “a bit debatable.” > > I think that’s a fair statement. I agree that “What a monster!” is not a fair criticism. > > This is known as a strawman argument – you ascribe “What a monster,” to me, and then denigrate it. But since my argument was never “What a monster,” you are attacking an argument I never made. Well, I also never said “What a monster.” Therefore, Mr. Strawman builder, you are attacking an argument I never made. OH, DOES THAT SAUCE BURN _GANDER??_ _ **DOES IT??!** _ ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/87 "2013-01-16T23:04:24Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Numerical arguments are a lot easier to make if you make up the numbers! Somewhat less convincing, however. 30% of all statistics are made up. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/88 "2013-01-16T23:05:44Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > There really isn’t a place for reasonable gun owners who also want stricter laws (like myself). Not in the NRA, at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/89 "2013-01-16T23:23:33Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Executive orders were originally meant to order fucking office supplies for the white house without having to go to congress and stuff like that, not set policy. Executive orders and proclamations were used for setting policy from the very beginning. On April 22, 1793, George Washington ordered federal officers to prosecute citizens interfering in the war between England and France prior to Congress passing the Neutrality Act of 1794. [PDF cite](http://www.llsdc.org/attachments/wysiwyg/544/crs-95-772.pdf). ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/90 "2013-01-16T23:28:36Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You appear to oppose a gun registration scheme. Why is that, specifically? Really not in the scope of this thread, I don’t really want to get into a generic drawn out gun debate where we cover all the bases. But suffice to say that this scheme is something the democrats have been trying to push for a while, and it would clearly be an abusive of executive power without a change in the law. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/91 "2013-01-16T23:40:27Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Really not in the scope of this thread, I don’t really want to get into a generic drawn out gun debate where we cover all the bases. But suffice to say that this scheme is something the democrats have been trying to push for a while, and it would clearly be an abusive of executive power without a change in the law. Well, I asked because the most common opposition I’ve heard to registration is that it must be a prelude to a confiscation effort. Yet, you’ve made a point in this thread to suggest that nobody actually has been asserting that there would be any confiscation. So, since fears of confiscation are hyperbole, in your opinion, I was curious as to what _other_ reasons you might hold against registration efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/92 "2013-01-16T23:42:43Z")
What namby-pamby bullshit. Every friggin’ argument I’ve heard against gun registration boils down to: “registration is the first step to confiscation.” If you’re claiming to have never heard that, then I don’t know what to say but maybe you should wear a helmet or something. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/93 "2013-01-16T23:47:08Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Well, I asked because the most common opposition I’ve heard to registration is that it must be a prelude to a confiscation effort. > > Yet, you’ve made a point in this thread to suggest that nobody actually has been asserting that there would be any confiscation. > > So, since fears of confiscation are hyperbole, in your opinion, I was curious as to what _other_ reasons you might hold against registration efforts. You’re conflating two different things and you’re smart enough to know that. This thread is about the idea that all the gun nuts thought that today, January 16 2013, Obama was going to ban guns by decree. And since he didn’t, HAHAHA THOSE DUMB GUN NUTS. You, on the other hand, are talking about the possibility of further bans and confiscation at any point in the future. So you’re saying, essentially, that have to either hold the position “Obama will confiscate all guns by executive order today” or “Guns will never be confiscated at any time in the future of the United States” - obviously, that’s a false dichotomy. This is a rather amateurish gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/94 "2013-01-16T23:50:48Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > You’re conflating two different things and you’re smart enough to know that. > > This thread is about the idea that all the gun nuts thought that today, January 16 2013, Obama was going to ban guns by decree. And since he didn’t, HAHAHA THOSE DUMB GUN NUTS. > > You, on the other hand, are talking about the possibility of further bans and confiscation at any point in the future. > > So you’re saying, essentially, that have to either hold the position “Obama will confiscate all guns by executive order today” or “Guns will never be confiscated at any time in the future of the United States” - obviously, that’s a false dichotomy. > > This is a rather amateurish gotcha. I prefer to think of it as more semi-pro. You’ve been spouting about how risible we all are for suggesting anyone was spreading fears of confiscation. Now, it seems like you think confiscation is a risk, just not today, or something. Certainly, I could be misunderstanding, but it does seem to undercut your indignation from earlier in this very thread. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/95 "2013-01-16T23:56:51Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I prefer to think of it as more semi-pro. You’ve been spouting about how risible we all are for suggesting anyone was spreading fears of confiscation. Now, it seems like you think confiscation is a risk, just not today, or something. > > Certainly, I could be misunderstanding, but it does seem to undercut your indignation from earlier in this very thread. Oh for fucks sake. Read the OP of this thread. > [@](#): > > The gun fetishists had said Obama was going to take all the guns away and he didn’t. The OP said that “the gun fetishists”, and I’m sure that includes a whole lot of people in his view, believed that suddenly, today, January 16, we were going to have an absurdly massive change of policy and allow the president to become a dictator and just completely ban guns by decree. The whole point was to laugh at this position that maybe like 4 crazy guys on right wing conspiracy sites actually held but to imply it was a widespread view. Give me a fucking break with your feigned ignorance bullshit. It’s so fucking obvious how dumb the OP was. Now you’re telling me that if I think it’s possible in the next 300 fucking years for guns to gradually be banned and confiscated, then I’m somehow a hypocrite for thinking the straw man argument against people who believed they’d all be banned today was ridiculous. Are you trying to have a contest with the OP to see who can be dumber? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/96 "2013-01-17T00:08:21Z")
Was SenorBeef always a crazy person, or is he just pissed because guns are a hot-button issue for him? I really don’t recall him being this incoherent. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/97 "2013-01-17T00:13:14Z")
Yeah, I could probably use fewer run on sentences. But mostly you just think I’m rational when I agree with you and crazy when I don’t. Let me paraphase the last post. OP: All those gun nuts thought Obama was going to ban all guns today. But that didn’t happen. Ha! Paranoid idiots. Me: No one actually thought Obama was just going to ban guns by decree today. Hentor: Oh, so you don’t think gun confiscation is ever going to happen then? Well, why would you oppose registration then? Me: I didn’t say that it would never happen, I said that no one seriously thought it would happen today. Hentor: Oh, but you were saying earlier that you didn’t think confiscation was a risk! Me: Of course it isn’t a risk to happen right now, and the idea that anyone thought it was is absurd. That doesn’t mean I’m saying it could never happen way off into the future. Is that coherent enough? Edit: And actually, I’m not really angry over the gun issue. I don’t think the AWB will end up passing. I’m actually more upset that the democrats just gave the republicans the greatest gift possible for no fucking reason, and they’re spending all their political capital on this stupid shit rather than something that matters. Furthermore, the behavior of the SDMB in these gun threads, especially as they cast aspersions on the mentality and thought process of gun rights advocates, has been utterly moronic. But no one is willing to step up to the plate to reel in their own side, instead they ramp up the stupidity and encourage it. Someone has to fight back. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/98 "2013-01-17T00:51:36Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Was SenorBeef always a crazy person, or is he just pissed because guns are a hot-button issue for him? > > I really don’t recall him being this incoherent. I used to respect him as a poster before Sandy Hook. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/99 "2013-01-17T00:52:48Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Executive orders were originally meant to order fucking office supplies for the white house without having to go to congress and stuff like that, not set policy. Really? Could you provide some support for this assertion, please? In order to assist you in doing so, I’m going to post a link to the text of [Presidential Executive Order Number One.](http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=69792) Sorry I couldn’t find a reference to sending the Chief of Staff down to OvalOfficeMax to pick up some ink refills for the DeskJet. Perhaps your eyes are sharper than mine. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/100 "2013-01-17T00:56:31Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Yeah, I could probably use fewer run on sentences. But mostly you just think I’m rational when I agree with you and crazy when I don’t. I do admit, agreeing with me is generally rational. But bringing seething rage to a post is the irrational part. As it happens, a lot of people on the pro-gun side are angry right now, because they feel like they’re being attacked. I get it. > [@](#): > > Let me paraphase the last post. > > OP: All those gun nuts thought Obama was going to ban all guns today. But that didn’t happen. Ha! Paranoid idiots. > Me: No one actually thought Obama was just going to ban guns by decree today. You’re wrong. Several links were given to pro-gun people who were afraid that Obama would executive order away guns. > [@](#): > > Hentor: Oh, so you don’t think gun confiscation is ever going to happen then? Well, why would you oppose registration then? > Me: I didn’t say that it would never happen, I said that no one seriously thought it would happen today. > Hentor: Oh, but you were saying earlier that you didn’t think confiscation was a risk! > Me: Of course it isn’t a risk to happen right now, and the idea that anyone thought it was is absurd. That doesn’t mean I’m saying it could never happen way off into the future. In the future we could eat blond children to prevent asteroid impacts. Anything not against the laws of physics could happen in the future. So it’s not really a meaningful worry. > [@](#): > > Is that coherent enough? > > Edit: And actually, I’m not really angry over the gun issue. I don’t think the AWB will end up passing. I’m actually more upset that the democrats just gave the republicans the greatest gift possible for no fucking reason, and they’re spending all their political capital on this stupid shit rather than something that matters. I’m not for the AWB, personally. Although if I were king, I’d ban all semi-automatic weapons for private ownership. Bolt-actions, lever-actions, pumps and revolvers are slow enough to make me happy. I’d probably also require fixed magazines and no more than five shots. But I’m not king, so we need to do what the majority can get tone. Most people agree with an AWB, so I don’t think it will deplete much of his mojo. I doubt it will pass, given the way congress works, but I don’t think Obama wants to go down on that hill. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, the behavior of the SDMB in these gun threads, especially as they cast aspersions on the mentality and thought process of gun rights advocates, has been utterly moronic. But no one is willing to step up to the plate to reel in their own side, instead they ramp up the stupidity and encourage it. Someone has to fight back. There are sensible gun supporters. And then there is Alex Jones. The trouble is that many gun-folk are so angry that they are currently prone to hyperbole. If you follow any conservatives on Twitter, you’ve probably seen a bunch of the gun-grab nonsense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405.md?page=6)