# But...Obama Was Going To Take All The Guns! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405 "2013-01-16T18:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/101 "2013-01-17T00:58:26Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Well, I also never said “What a monster.” Therefore, Mr. Strawman builder, you are attacking an argument I never made. > > OH, DOES THAT SAUCE BURN _GANDER??_ > _ **DOES IT??!** _ True. I withdraw my previous post, and substitute the one that follows: Well, I said “a bit debatable.” I think that’s a fair statement. I agree that “That monster!” is not a fair criticism. This is known as a strawman argument – you ascribe “That monster,” to me, and then denigrate it. But since my argument was never “That monster,” you are attacking an argument I never made. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/102 "2013-01-17T00:58:51Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > I used to respect him as a poster before Sandy Hook. Well that’s the real tragedy then, isn’t it. Actually, I’d be curious if you could elaborate as to what makes me so detestable now. Do I have to hop into the big recereational grieving group with you guys to be a decent human being? Personally, I stopped respecting your posts after you didn’t shed tears for days every single time something bad happened in the world, which is pretty much constantly. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Really? Could you provide some support for this assertion, please? Fair enough, I’m wrong about that I guess. That’s what I’ve read, but I haven’t looked into it much. I do know that there is significant debate as to what constitutes a proper executive order and what doesn’t, so it’s not as if they’ve got carte blanche to overwrite a law. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/103 "2013-01-17T01:09:38Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You’re wrong. Several links were given to pro-gun people who were afraid that Obama would executive order away guns. Only one of them, the bolded one I specifically pointed out, actually said that. Others were just general concern that Obama would persue what gun control he could through executive orders. I don’t think you seem to understand how ridiculous the notion that guns would just be banned one day by surprise in one fell swoop is. > [@](#): > > In the future we could eat blond children to prevent asteroid impacts. Anything not against the laws of physics could happen in the future. So it’s not really a meaningful worry. I’m kind of amazed that even after simplifying it greatly, you still don’t understand what happened. Hentor was trying to get me in a gotcha. He was saying that because I dismissed the idea that guns would all be confiscated today by executive order, then I didn’t feel that confiscation was ever a possibility, therefore I could never worry about future legislation that might lead to confiscation. > [@](#): > > Most people agree with an AWB, so I don’t think it will deplete much of his mojo. I doubt it will pass, given the way congress works, but I don’t think Obama wants to go down on that hill. Most people agree with the AWB because they believe something false about it. They’ve been mislead. Anyone with the slightest bit of integrity knows it’s a crock of shit, at least on this board, where it’s been explained in detail. > [@](#): > > There are sensible gun supporters. And then there is Alex Jones. The trouble is that many gun-folk are so angry that they are currently prone to hyperbole. If you follow any conservatives on Twitter, you’ve probably seen a bunch of the gun-grab nonsense. I’m sure that’s true. I’m not supporting them. I’m trying to combat this over the top asshole circle jerk going on on the SDMB now. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/104 "2013-01-17T01:44:47Z")
Before Sandy Hook, I really was basically okay with our gun laws in the US. I felt like there may have been areas where they could’ve been tweaked and improved, like perhaps better control regarding assault guns, but overall, I wasn’t stridently anti gun ownership. However, _after_ Sandy Hook and so much vitriol, lies, fear mongering, plans to circumvent the government over issues they disagreed with, straw man arguments and just generally batshit insane behavior from proponents and organizations like the NRA, I feel that banning guns in general might not be that bad of an idea after all. The way these people have reacted to even rational conversation about this is downright terrifying. Much more so then dealing with a world where everyone isn’t protected. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/105 "2013-01-17T02:29:56Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > So this > > is wild-eyed rantings of a gun nut to you? It’s evidence, to you, that all gun nuts though today would be gun ban day? No. But it’s unquestionably over-the-top, which is well out of wishy-washy territory. But > [@](#): > > “I’m against having a king. I think having a monarch is what we fought the American Revolution over and someone who wants to bypass the Constitution, bypass Congress — that’s someone who wants to act like a king or a monarch.” is solidly into wild-eyed rantings territory. And that was a U.S. Senator, remember. Like I said, if this is the sort of thing you consider wishy-washy, I’m genuinely concerned for you. I worry about the batshit-insane stuff that must strike you as just middlin’ conversational to mildly assertive. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/106 "2013-01-17T03:10:31Z")
Great, thread #58482 for the checklist. “No one is taking your guns. You’re insane if you think anyone wants to take your guns. Also, all of your guns should be taken.” “We need to have a reasonable discussion about this issue. Also, anyone who disagrees with me is a racist, insane, and a conspiracy theorist who wants to see children die.” “Stop using inflammatory terms like ‘gun grabber’, you gun nut with assault weapons!” I should just start playing bingo with these things. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/107 "2013-01-17T06:16:55Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Your wrong by an order of magnitude. The US averages 51 lightening deaths a year. Yeah, so its a good thing I said lightning STRIKES not lightning deaths. If you want to talk about deaths, then I would point out that more people die from punches and kicks than long guns and about 3 times as many people die from knives and blades. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > He’s also about 33% low on his estimate of deaths due to long guns [http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-offense-data](http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-offense-data) [http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8](http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8) You’re right, I forgot to include shotguns. I will note that the only shotguns people are talking about banning are semiautomatic shotguns (which don’t really work very well IMHO because they jam a LOT). > [@Simplicio](#): > > Numerical arguments are a lot easier to make if you make up the numbers! Somewhat less convincing, however. Numerical arguments are easy to dismiss if you misread what is written. > [@ExcitedIdiot](#): > > Also, there is no law that can be passed to ban lighting strikes. I was trying to point out how rare death by rifle is. Change lightning strikes to knives if you like. > [@faithfool](#): > > Before Sandy Hook, I really was basically okay with our gun laws in the US. I felt like there may have been areas where they could’ve been tweaked and improved, like perhaps better control regarding assault guns, but overall, I wasn’t stridently anti gun ownership. > > However, _after_ Sandy Hook and so much vitriol, lies, fear mongering, plans to circumvent the government over issues they disagreed with, straw man arguments and just generally batshit insane behavior from proponents and organizations like the NRA, I feel that banning guns in general might not be that bad of an idea after all. The way these people have reacted to even rational conversation about this is downright terrifying. Much more so then dealing with a world where everyone isn’t protected. TO be fair, we’ve heard more than a little bit of hyperbole, misinformation and fear-mongering from the gun control side of the debate as well. I’ve never been OK with our gun laws. I think we need a national registry that tracks ownership of every gun (we need to get rid of straw purchasers of guns who flip those guns to anyone that will pay for it). I think a gun license should be required to purchase and own a gun (a test and relicensing every few years). I think that registration follows the gun so if you sell the gun to someone, even in a private sale, the gun sale must be executed through an FFL dealer (I don’t know how much they would charge but they only charge about $25 to accept a mail order gun and handle the paperwork associated with registering the gun to you in the state and I don’t see why transferring registration would cost much more than that), the gun show loophole is fucking retarded. Like I said before, trying to stop gun violence by banning semi automatic rifles is like trying to stop abortions by banning partial birth abortions. The VAST majority of gun violence in this country is committed with handguns and nobody is talking about limiting handguns. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/108 "2013-01-17T06:50:37Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > I’m not sure who’s more rabidly defending their position, the NRA life members or the Gamer magazine subscribers. I remember back in the 90s when people actually bought gaming mags. Good times. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/109 "2013-01-17T07:17:58Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > TO be fair, we’ve heard more than a little bit of hyperbole, misinformation and fear-mongering from the gun control side of the debate as well. [All the snippage is mine.] True. There’s been plenty of hyperbole to go around. But, the complete hysterical, frothing-at-the-mouth, over-the-top-clutch-your-kids vitriol seems to be emanating from gun enthusiasts. It’s unsettling and surreal. If I didn’t know better, I’d think that the proposal on the table would be to rape and slaughter their loved ones. Step back from the ledge, people. Life will go on. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/110 "2013-01-17T11:03:58Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > I’m not sure who’s more rabidly defending their position, the NRA life members or the Gamer magazine subscribers. There have been multiple studies debunking the connection between video game violence and actual violence. Anecdotal, but the gaming community I belong to doesn’t really care about new research being done, because it’s only going to bolster the existing evidence that video games act as an outlet for already violent people, and you’re more likely to become violent due to watching a football game than playing GTA or Halo. Maybe _this_ research will stop the “Doom caused Columbine” crowd, who knows. (I do: it won’t.) ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/111 "2013-01-17T11:14:49Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > [All the snippage is mine.] > > True. There’s been plenty of hyperbole to go around. But, the complete hysterical, frothing-at-the-mouth, over-the-top-clutch-your-kids vitriol seems to be emanating from gun enthusiasts. It’s unsettling and surreal. If I didn’t know better, I’d think that the proposal on the table would be to rape and slaughter their loved ones. Step back from the ledge, people. Life will go on. And lets put both sides into perspective: Guns seized by Obama: 0 Number of people massacred by gun weilding lunatics in 2012 alone: [151](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-victims-2012) One side has good reason to get a bit hysterical. One side doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/112 "2013-01-17T11:48:08Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > And lets put both sides into perspective: > > Guns seized by Obama: 0 > Number of people massacred by gun weilding lunatics in 2012 alone: [151](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-victims-2012) > > One side has good reason to get a bit hysterical. One side doesn’t. As for the 150 million gun owners who didn’t massacre anyone but are still being demonized as the cause of all evil in society (complete with regular calls to imprison them, have the military slaughter them, etc), I guess they just don’t count in your addled math? ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/113 "2013-01-17T11:48:57Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > And lets put both sides into perspective: > > Guns seized by Obama: 0 > Number of people massacred by gun weilding lunatics in 2012 alone: [151](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-victims-2012) Less than half of that number actually died. Small distinction, perhaps, but those are small numbers anyway. As usual, there’s no outrage at all about the literally thousands of poor urban minority kids who died that same year. Does it just take a sudden white death toll to capture the heart of the nation, or what? Or is it only murders with scary black assault weapons that count, even though there are so few of them? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/114 "2013-01-17T12:03:07Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > As for the 150 million gun owners who didn’t massacre anyone but are still being demonized as the cause of all evil in society (complete with regular calls to imprison them, have the military slaughter them, etc), I guess they just don’t count in your addled math? If they didn’t want this sort of reaction, they should have been supporting reasonable precautions against mass shootings all along. They wouldn’t even let us hire an **ATF Director** , fer cryin’ out loud. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/115 "2013-01-17T12:30:14Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > If they didn’t want this sort of reaction, they should have been supporting reasonable precautions against mass shootings all along. They wouldn’t even let us hire an **ATF Director** , fer cryin’ out loud. What actions would the ATF have taken to prevent the mass shooting incidents? ---
**Author:** ![DrumBum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@DrumBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrumBum)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/116 "2013-01-17T12:45:37Z")
The esteemed Ms. Ann Coulter proposes a [new interpretation](http://www.mediaite.com/tv/coulter-on-gun-violence-if-you-compare-white-populations-we-have-the-same-murder-rate-as-belgium/) of the issue that introduces race as a filter. > [@](#): > > “If you compare white populations, we have the same murder rate as Belgium,” Coulter said. “So perhaps it’s not a gun problem, it’s a demographic problem.” I am waiting on Ted Nugent to offer his thoughts, such as they are. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/117 "2013-01-17T13:01:05Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > What actions would the ATF have taken to prevent the mass shooting incidents? I don’t know. And if the gun lobby has its way, we’ll never know. The thing is, that was just an example. There are a few others, like how the NRA quashed CDC research into why [“guns in the house more often resulted in accidental and intentional family deaths than the protection of the inhabitants”](http://www.sunjournal.com/news/our-view/2013/01/16/congress-killed-gun-research-nras-behest/1307006). It’s not just mass shootings that the NRA doesn’t do anything about. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/118 "2013-01-17T14:17:12Z")
What would research into accidental shooting deaths of one’s own family have done to prevent a school massacre? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/119 "2013-01-17T14:25:48Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > What would research into accidental shooting deaths of one’s own family have done to prevent a school massacre? At risk of repeating myself, “I don’t know. And if the gun lobby has its way, we’ll never know.” But hey, I can play your game, too. How would preventing the appointment of an ATF Director keep mass shootings from happening? For that matter, what has the NRA done _in any way_ to keep their favorite products from being used to shoot up schools? ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/120 "2013-01-17T14:29:53Z")
I’m not a member or supporter of the NRA, but I am good at noticing that your supposed examples of how they or any pro-gun organization are responsible for mass shootings don’t make a lick of sense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405.md?page=7)