# But...Obama Was Going To Take All The Guns! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405 "2013-01-16T18:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/121 "2013-01-17T15:24:41Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > As for the 150 million gun owners who didn’t massacre anyone but are still being demonized as the cause of all evil in society (complete with regular calls to imprison them, have the military slaughter them, etc), I guess they just don’t count in your addled math? Strawman arguments. Well, not even arguments. I see balanced, reasonable proposals from Obama on the one hand and hysterical over-reactions (including yours) on the other. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/122 "2013-01-17T15:47:43Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > As for the 150 million gun owners who didn’t massacre anyone but are still being demonized as the cause of all evil in society (complete with regular calls to imprison them, have the military slaughter them, etc), I guess they just don’t count in your addled math? Really? Regular calls to have the military slaughter the 150 million gun owners. Are these regular calls recorded anywhere? Press conferences? Can you cite 2 instances? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/123 "2013-01-17T16:06:38Z")
Is that the condescending part or the robot part talking? Or both? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/124 "2013-01-17T16:08:33Z")
Definitely not on board with the slaughter thing, at least until I sell mine. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/125 "2013-01-17T16:10:52Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Definitely not on board with the slaughter thing, at least until I sell mine. Maybe you can sell it to someone you don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/126 "2013-01-17T16:17:14Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > What actions would the ATF have taken to prevent the mass shooting incidents? Not much, but the gun crowd was against it anyway, just because the ATF is jackbooted thugs or something. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/127 "2013-01-17T16:18:50Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > What would research into accidental shooting deaths of one’s own family have done to prevent a school massacre? You are absolutely right-Any research is useless unless you can go back in time and use it to prevent the problem in the first place. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/128 "2013-01-17T16:31:51Z")
And one more ridiculous exaggeration by a member of the pro-gun crowd, [this time by U.S. Senator (and alleged Presidential timber) Marco Rubio](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/16/prominent-republicans-criticize-obamas-executive-actions/): > [@](#): > > “Making matters worse is that President Obama is again abusing his power by imposing his policies via executive fiat instead of allowing them to be debated in Congress,” Mr. Rubio said. “President Obama’s frustration with our republic and the way it works doesn’t give him license to ignore the Constitution.” That’s not up there with Sen. Paul’s wild-eyed rant, but for those who claim that the exaggerations and distortions have been coming from both sides, find me one pro-gun-control Senator or member of the Obama Administration who’s said anything this nutso. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/129 "2013-01-17T16:40:31Z")
> **[Roundup: GOP outraged by Obama's executive orders on guns, but still not...](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2013/01/17/1179617/-Roundup-GOP-outraged-by-Obama-s-executive-orders-on-guns-but-still-not-certain-why)** > > How dare Obama try to do ... anything. > > ... An excellent review of such comments as Sen. Rubio’s. Gist of the thing is that they are wildly upset about modest and sensible proposals that are largely popular. More to the point, they are shrieking hysterically about tyrannous proposals, but are incapable of specifying which proposals they object to , or why they object. Except that its because Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/130 "2013-01-17T16:47:04Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > [All the snippage is mine.] > > True. There’s been plenty of hyperbole to go around. But, the complete hysterical, frothing-at-the-mouth, over-the-top-clutch-your-kids vitriol seems to be emanating from gun enthusiasts. It’s unsettling and surreal. If I didn’t know better, I’d think that the proposal on the table would be to rape and slaughter their loved ones. Step back from the ledge, people. Life will go on. I support gun rights and my only point is that focusing on “assault weapons” is counterproductive. I think its about as productive to have kneejerk reactions to anyone who opposes an assault weapons ban to have kneejerk reactions toanyone that support an assault weapons ban. But I have not heard any good arguments why an assault weapons man is anything more than symbolic victory that unnecessarily infringes on our right to bear arms. See my post below (especially the last paragraph). This is about as gun nut as I get and about as nutty as most gun owners I know get. The population of gun owners who put up videos on youtube is NOT representative. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > 12000 people die every year due to gun violence. > > About 400 of them die from shots fired from long guns (including "assualt weapons). > > More people get struck by lightning than die from long gun fire. > > Its retarded to focus on “assault weapons” > > You want to save lives, then: > > Have a national registry that tracks the ownership of every gun. > > Make everyone who wants a gun take a class on gun safety and take a licensing exam. > > Make people present ID to buy ammunition. > > Hire more cops. > > These mass shootings might be good opportunities to focus on gun violence but focusing on banning semi-automatic rifles is like focusing on partial birth abortion to reduce the number of abortions in the country. You will expend a lot of political capital and grassroots inertia to achieve something of dubious value. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/131 "2013-01-17T16:51:47Z")
Why is it that people who are so very upset about the focus on assault weapons don’t seem to want to do anything about handguns either? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/132 "2013-01-17T16:58:51Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Maybe you can sell it to someone you don’t like. I’m guessing they already have plenty. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/133 "2013-01-17T17:01:16Z")
Got a question. It appears that many of these so-called military weapons aren’t really “military” weapons at all, but ordinary weapons that mimic the style, but not the function. The flash suppressor isn’t really military grade, that bayonet mount doesn’t really support a bayonet, so on and so forth. So why do they do it? What is the manufacturers motivation in styling the gun to look like an “assault rifle” when it really isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/134 "2013-01-17T17:14:52Z")
On Bill O’Reilly’s show last night, [Rubio said Obama was trying to implement a gun ban](http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/01/republicans-vigorously-oppose-imaginary-obamas-gun-proposals) of the sort that DC had before the _Heller_ decision. > [@](#): > > “What the President is proposing is problematic for a couple of reasons, but primarily because it doesn’t work…” Rubio said. “These ideas don’t work. It’s not just Chicago. Washington, DC had a very similar gun ban. And it didn’t work. In fact violent crime and murder and all these things skyrocketed in Washington during the time of those bans.” _Buhahahahahahahaaha!!!_ And this is the GOP’s Great Hispanic [del]Dope[/del] Hope for 2016. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/135 "2013-01-17T17:36:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Got a question. It appears that many of these so-called military weapons aren’t really “military” weapons at all, but ordinary weapons that mimic the style, but not the function. The flash suppressor isn’t really military grade, that bayonet mount doesn’t really support a bayonet, so on and so forth. > > So why do they do it? What is the manufacturers motivation in styling the gun to look like an “assault rifle” when it really isn’t? I think you may be conflating more than one thing, because otherwise I’m not quite sure what you’re talking about. Ignoring the 94-04 AWB for a second, generally the only difference between an actual military rifle like the M4/M16 and a civilian version is that the civilian version is incapable of fully automatic fire. There are variants that have other changes - for example some AR-15s have longer and/or otherwise high quality barrels for accuracy for competition shooting. However, during 94-04, rifles were modified in order to skirt around bans. Since the ban said that rifles with stuff like bayonette lugs and flash suppresors (which don’t try to hide the flash from the person you’re shooting at, by the way, on account of the laws and physics and stuff - but rather try to keep shooting from blinding the shooter), the rifles were often modified to remove those features. Essentially, if what defines an “assault weapon” is having things like a pistol grip and a bayonette lug, you could modify those parts, for example into a [thumbhole stock](http://cdn.armslist.com/images/posts/6345121959255632372x2y4yjq.jpg) or saw off the bayonette lug in order for it not to be an “assault weapon” anymore. If you say “well that’s why the ban didn’t have any teeth, it only banned minor features like that!” - well, that’s exactly the point. The main functional difference between actual military arms and their civilian counterparts is the fact that they can fire in full auto or burst modes, and that’s already strictly regulated. All that’s left to worry about is whether the gun looks scary - this is where type of stock, bayonettes, etc come in. You can’t say “the bans only ban cosmetic features” like it’s a failure of the ban - that’s just the main factoring seperating these guns from non-assault weapons. What it looks like, rather than how it functions, is what all the big fuss is about. Well, that, and the media, government, and gun advocacy groups constantly lie about what an “assault weapon” is. So anyway, to answer your question, on weapons not skirting around the AWB, no, you can mount the same bayonette, use the same muzzle attachments, etc. as the military version. On weapons made during the AWB, you often had these weird mashups and alternations on the weapon to avoid having the banned parts, so those maybe the rifles you’re talking about. As to why they’re made - well, they share all the same qualities aside from the select-fire that their military counterparts do. The AK’s legendary reliability is shown just as much in the civilian version of the rifle. The AR-15 has the same ergonomics that people were trained on in the military. It’s cool to own a piece of history - I own a beautiful Mauser 98k from WW2 made on captured German equipment by Yugoslavian rebels at the end of the war, and I doubt people think that makes me a baby-killer, because hey, it looks conventional. The AK and AR type rifles are similarly iconic. People have owned the common soldiers rifle of the day in the US for well over a hundred years - they’re usually rugged and reliable, proven, no shortage of accessories and replacement parts, common ammunition, etc. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/136 "2013-01-17T18:07:09Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > No. But it’s unquestionably over-the-top, which is well out of wishy-washy territory. > > But > is solidly into wild-eyed rantings territory. And that was a U.S. Senator, remember. > > Like I said, if this is the sort of thing you consider wishy-washy, I’m genuinely concerned for you. I worry about the batshit-insane stuff that must strike you as just middlin’ conversational to mildly assertive. Sorry, I should’ve been more clear. You’re right that the statements are hyperbolic. But I was evaluating in the context of my original challenge - to find someone saying that they expected Obama to make all gun ownership in the US legal. All the “Obama is now acting like a king” stuff is hyperbolic. But I was saying that this guy is not saying he had an expectaton that guns would be banned yesterday. That was my purpose in this thread. I’ve been trying to keep my comments on gun threads (where I’m the main target in like 19 of them) specific to the issues brought up in that thread, and my participation here is geared towards my specific point that the OP here is full of shit. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Why is it that people who are so very upset about the focus on assault weapons don’t seem to want to do anything about handguns either? Well, mostly because I don’t want to ban guns. Your side is the one calling for the status quo to change, and therefore the obligation is on you to make the argument. If you were sincere in your desires to use targeted laws to improve public safety and crime rates, then we’d be talking about handguns, and possibly talking about enforcement to keep guns out of criminal (or I guess insane) hands. But we’re not. The discussion yet again has gone to “I have a really strong emotional reaction to how this gun looks, let’s focus our efforts there” or, more cynically “I think the public will have a strong enough emotional reaction to how this gun looks, therefore I think it may be one of the few gun bans we can actually push through, and let’s ban any gun we can at any time where it seems possible” I’m just pointing out what a good faith effort would look like on your part, if you were actually interested in reducing homicides and crime. An assault weapons ban proves quite the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/137 "2013-01-17T18:08:18Z")
After Sandy Hook the NRA suggested placing “a good guy with a gun” at schools. The hooting and [derision](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/22/opinion/the-nra-crawls-from-its-hidey-hole.html?_r=0) was nearly universal. Obama’s 18th executive order is “18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.” A School Resource Officer is a (presumably) armed law enforcement officer. What an idiot! More guns aren’t going to solve the problem! ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/138 "2013-01-17T19:39:32Z")
> [@DrumBum](#): > > I am waiting on Ted Nugent to offer his thoughts, such as they are. 😃 You and I both know that nothing resembling a thought has happened between Ted Nugent’s ears since the Nixon administration. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/139 "2013-01-17T19:46:11Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > A School Resource Officer is a (presumably) armed law enforcement officer. [Your presumption would not be reliable](http://investorplace.com/investorpolitics/obama-unveils-23-executive-orders-for-gun-control/). > [@](#): > > School resource officers are essentially police “embedded” within a elementary, middle, or high school. They are in schools both to enforce laws and to educate students about the law, as well as to potentially serve as counselors. > > Obama is trying to stake out a position that increases the police presence in schools, without resorting to some of the other ideas that conservatives have suggested, such as arming teachers, administrators, and other school staff, or putting armed police officers in schools — most school resource officers are not armed with guns. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405/140 "2013-01-17T19:52:58Z")
Using guidance counsellors as decoys doesn’t seem like such a bad idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-obama-was-going-to-take-all-the-guns/647405.md?page=8)