# But what about woman of steel, man of Kleenex? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 22, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777 "2006-09-22T20:59:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/21 "2006-09-23T03:52:57Z")
[QUOTE=kunilou] Pregnancy is another problem entirely. Let’s say that, by whatever mechanism, Supergirl gets inseminated by human sperm. What happens when millions of sperm reach the Woman of Steel’s egg? It’s invulnerable, of course. Millions of sperm will converge on superegg, knocking on the door, as it were. But none will be able to unite with the invulnerable egg. Pregnacy will not take place. No fertility clinic will be able to circumvent it. Exposing the egg to kryptonite will most likely either kill the egg or horribly mutate it. The Woman of Steel will be the last of her kind, unless she mates with a fellow Kryptonian. [/QUOTE] Well, we need not conceptualize fertilization as “boy sperms overpower girl ova”. How about Supergirl’s ova change their surface chemistry when they find the right sperm and invite the fellow in, sealing the surface again behind him faster than a speeding bullet? I think that’s more the way it happens, you know… ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/22 "2006-09-23T04:19:34Z")
So we’re assuing that Supergirl is _straight?_ ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/23 "2006-09-23T04:25:39Z")
[QUOTE=Shoshana] So we’re assuing that Supergirl is _straight?_ [/QUOTE] With all the times that she and Wonder Woman have gotten it on\* I’m not so sure. She is probably bi. \*in my head ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/24 "2006-09-23T04:27:58Z")
Of course since Supergirl literally could suck a golf ball through a garden hose, I think we’re in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/25 "2006-09-23T05:43:50Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] Of course since Supergirl literally could suck a golf ball through a garden hose, I think we’re in trouble. [/QUOTE] If by trouble you mean _awesome_. ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/26 "2006-09-23T06:04:27Z")
Cecil has covered the subject of [penile fracture](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_426.html), which seems to me the most likely outcome. Having once suffered a mild, non-ER-worthy instance of same, I can only offer my pre-emptive condolences to the poor schmo who gets “lucky” with Wonder Woman. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/27 "2006-09-23T07:31:21Z")
[QUOTE=Interrobang!?] My question: has anyone ever gone over what would happen if the situation were reversed? What if Supergirl fancies a hunky human male, who, being human, fancies her in return?? [/QUOTE] Well, I did read an erotic fanfic once that mentioned She-Hulk’s sexual frustration due to the inability of normal men to penetrate her. Enter : Power Man ( literally ). Which of course, is the solution. Just haul the human boyfriend over to the nearest mad scientist and power him up. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/28 "2006-09-23T08:10:35Z")
[QUOTE=AHunter3] Well, we need not conceptualize fertilization as “boy sperms overpower girl ova”. How about Supergirl’s ova change their surface chemistry when they find the right sperm and invite the fellow in, sealing the surface again behind him faster than a speeding bullet? I think that’s more the way it happens, you know… [/QUOTE] According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_fertilisation), the spermatozoon penetrates an outer layer, then releases enzymes that dissolve a spot in the next layer, after which a chemical reaction renders the ovum impenetrable to other sperm. So it seems that the chemicals released by the sperm are important. If Supergirl’s eggs are as impenetrable as her bulletproof skin, fertilization by mere human sperm ain’t gonna do anything. Which makes you wonder how many socks got holes eaten through them by teenaged Clark Kent’s semen. I’m not a comic book reader - was this ever addressed in a flashback or anything? I’m imagining it must have come up at some point. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/29 "2006-09-23T14:09:26Z")
[QUOTE=Robot Arm] And Uncle Bonsai’s [classic “Lois Lane”](http://www.yellowtailrecords.com/lyrics/lyr_ub1.html#lois) song, which should be linked to in all the threads with the Niven essay. [/QUOTE] [Better still . . .](http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/superman.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/30 "2006-09-23T15:36:13Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_fertilisation), the spermatozoon penetrates an outer layer, then releases enzymes that dissolve a spot in the next layer, after which a chemical reaction renders the ovum impenetrable to other sperm. So it seems that the chemicals released by the sperm are important. If Supergirl’s eggs are as impenetrable as her bulletproof skin, fertilization by mere human sperm ain’t gonna do anything. [/QUOTE] The big fallacy of these arguments is the assumption that all of Superman/Supergirl’s systems work in a matter analogous to his gross physical strength and invulnerablility. That need not be the case. For example, Superman is invulnerable to radiation (excluding kryptonite, of course). Yet he can see. In fact, he can see much much better than a normal human. Light can pass through his cornea and lens, and can react with his retina, but it cannot burn or blind him. In the same way, I’d expect that a sperm would be able to permeate Supergirl’s ova (in fact, I’d wager that her ova would remain viable much longer than a normal female’s, and she’d likely be immune to chemical birth control, so wear a rubber, guys). What I’m trying to say is that while empowered Kryptonians are resistant to _injury_, it doesn’t follow that they’re resistant to non-injurious manipulation. Supergirl’s vagina would be elastic enough to accomidate a penis, but wouldn’t stretch beyond that, to the point it was hurting her (so if Comet was hung like a horse, he may be out of luck). The hymen would remain a difficulty. If Supergirl wished to enjoy vaginal sex, she’s have to employ magic (a certain Mr. Batson would be happy to oblige), have it cut ahead of time by a gynecologist using a kryptonite scalpel, or simply another person of like strength, such as a randy Daxamite. The part of the argument that remains convincing is that involuntary muscular contractions (vaginal contractions, ejaculation, labor, etc.) would have analogous strength to a Kryptonian’s concious muscular movements. This is given creedence by several incidence in which a super-sneeze erupts with hurricane force and the like. However, that was pre-crisis. Post-crisis, Kryptonian powers have been explained as largely psionic in origin. Strength and flight becomes an extremely low-range form of telekinesis, telescopic vision a form of remote viewing, etc. It does not necessarily follow that a kryptonian would endow his or her autonomous systems with the strength. If they did, through practicing biofeedback, they could learn not to. Recently, Superman lost his powers for an entire year, and he suggests that he unconciously willed the powers not to return for that period because he enjoyed being human. He could therefore, with training, learn to turn some or all of his powers off. Or else they could just do it under a red sun lamp. That’s the easiest solution. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/31 "2006-09-23T15:46:45Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] Like all Kryptonians, Supergirl is vulnerable to magic. So I’d just have to work my magic. 🆒 [/QUOTE] Unless you have magical spunk you know the kind that would hit Kennedy’s throat, go through the seat in front of him, make a left turn, go through Connolly’s wrist, turn downwards and plany itself in his left thigh you’ve got a shit ton of work ahead of you, brother. And it’s not a task I’d shy away from either. If you could make Supergirl have an orgasm, you should get a Nobel Peace prize. waitaminit..what if she’s a squirter…you might get a hole burned through your head from the pressure…again…not a bad way to go…leave it to us guys to think of this shit, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/32 "2006-09-23T15:49:01Z")
[QUOTE=Menocchio] The big fallacy of these arguments is the assumption that all of Superman/Supergirl’s systems work in a matter analogous to his gross physical strength and invulnerablility. That need not be the case. For example, Superman is invulnerable to radiation (excluding kryptonite, of course). Yet he can see. In fact, he can see much much better than a normal human. Light can pass through his cornea and lens, and can react with his retina, but it cannot burn or blind him. In the same way, I’d expect that a sperm would be able to permeate Supergirl’s ova (in fact, I’d wager that her ova would remain viable much longer than a normal female’s, and she’d likely be immune to chemical birth control, so wear a rubber, guys). What I’m trying to say is that while empowered Kryptonians are resistant to _injury_, it doesn’t follow that they’re resistant to non-injurious manipulation. Supergirl’s vagina would be elastic enough to accomidate a penis, but wouldn’t stretch beyond that, to the point it was hurting her (so if Comet was hung like a horse, he may be out of luck). The hymen would remain a difficulty. If Supergirl wished to enjoy vaginal sex, she’s have to employ magic (a certain Mr. Batson would be happy to oblige), have it cut ahead of time by a gynecologist using a kryptonite scalpel, or simply another person of like strength, such as a randy Daxamite. The part of the argument that remains convincing is that involuntary muscular contractions (vaginal contractions, ejaculation, labor, etc.) would have analogous strength to a Kryptonian’s concious muscular movements. This is given creedence by several incidence in which a super-sneeze erupts with hurricane force and the like. However, that was pre-crisis. Post-crisis, Kryptonian powers have been explained as largely psionic in origin. Strength and flight becomes an extremely low-range form of telekinesis, telescopic vision a form of remote viewing, etc. It does not necessarily follow that a kryptonian would endow his or her autonomous systems with the strength. If they did, through practicing biofeedback, they could learn not to. Recently, Superman lost his powers for an entire year, and he suggests that he unconciously willed the powers not to return for that period because he enjoyed being human. He could therefore, with training, learn to turn some or all of his powers off. **Or else they could just do it under a red sun lamp**. That’s the easiest solution. [/QUOTE] Bolding mine. “Order up! Who ordered the baked vagina with extra cheese?” ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/33 "2006-09-23T15:57:18Z")
[QUOTE=bouv] If by trouble you mean _awesome_. [/QUOTE] Remove the words ‘golf’ and ‘garden’ from my previous post. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/34 "2006-09-23T17:41:35Z")
Suppose (pre-Crisis) Superman and/or Supergirl decides survival of the Kryptonian humanoid species is more important than his/her superhero career. He/she is voluntarily exposed to gold kryptonite – superpowers erased. He/she can now have sex with a Terran human without fear of causing injury. Conception might even result. But . . . would the offspring be superpowered or not? ---
**Author:** ![Interrobang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/interrobang/32/17463_2.png) [@Interrobang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interrobang)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/35 "2006-09-25T16:28:43Z")
In short, then, it’s probably best to work one’s mojo on Mary Marvel, who can at least transform into an actual human woman for coitus. As long as one remembers not to use “Shazam” as any kind of safeword, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/36 "2006-09-25T22:18:18Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Suppose (pre-Crisis) Superman and/or Supergirl decides survival of the Kryptonian humanoid species is more important than his/her superhero career. He/she is voluntarily exposed to gold kryptonite – superpowers erased. He/she can now have sex with a Terran human without fear of causing injury. Conception might even result. But . . . would the offspring be superpowered or not? [/QUOTE] There was, as one might expect, an Imaginary Story that dealt with this very subject. Pre-Crisis Superman had married Lois Lane and lost his powers due to gold K (I can’t remember whether it was voluntary, accidental or another of Luthor’s attempts to kill Superman.) Anyway, Clark and Lois had a baby, and yup, the baby had superpowers. The fanwankers (even pre-Crisis, even for an Imaginary Story, there were fanwankers) decided that was okay because exposure to gold K didn’t alter Superman’s genetics. No, it didn’t mention what happened if Lois tried to breastfeed the kid. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/37 "2006-09-26T00:07:03Z")
[QUOTE=Menocchio] The hymen would remain a difficulty. If Supergirl wished to enjoy vaginal sex, she’s have to employ magic (a certain Mr. Batson would be happy to oblige), have it cut ahead of time by a gynecologist using a kryptonite scalpel, or simply another person of like strength, such as a randy Daxamite. [/QUOTE] Or just break it with her own fingers. Can’t a human woman do that? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/38 "2006-09-26T00:22:45Z")
[QUOTE=kunilou] There was, as one might expect, an Imaginary Story that dealt with this very subject. Pre-Crisis Superman had married Lois Lane and lost his powers due to gold K (I can’t remember whether it was voluntary, accidental or another of Luthor’s attempts to kill Superman.) Anyway, Clark and Lois had a baby, and yup, the baby had superpowers. The fanwankers (even pre-Crisis, even for an Imaginary Story, there were fanwankers) decided that was okay because exposure to gold K didn’t alter Superman’s genetics. No, it didn’t mention what happened if Lois tried to breastfeed the kid. [/QUOTE] To quote Niven’s essay on that idea : [QUOTE=Larry Niven] Though exposed to gold kryptonite, the sperm still carries kryptonian genes. If these are recessive, then LL carries a developing human foetus. There will be no more Supermen; but at least we need not worry about the mother’s health. But if some or all of the kryptonian genes are dominant… Can the infant use his X-ray vision before birth? After all, with such a power he can probably see through his own closed eyelids. That would leave LL sterile. If the kid starts using heat vision, things get even worse. But when he starts to kick, it’s all over. He will kick his way out into open air, killing himself and his mother. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/39 "2006-09-26T00:49:23Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_fertilisation), the spermatozoon penetrates an outer layer, then releases enzymes that dissolve a spot in the next layer, after which a chemical reaction renders the ovum impenetrable to other sperm. So it seems that the chemicals released by the sperm are important. If Supergirl’s eggs are as impenetrable as her bulletproof skin, fertilization by mere human sperm ain’t gonna do anything. [/QUOTE] Just a thought, here…Superman’s not COMPLETELY invulnerable, right? I mean, when he fought Doomsday, he ended up bleeding (though probably at the point that any other being would have been ground into a fine powder). Kinda harkening back to the old days where “only an exploding shell could pierce his skin.” What I’m saying, is…what if Kryptonian invulnerability “scales down”? So, to a single cell (like an Ovum), perhaps a single Sperm might have the proportional speed and strength of a monster like Doomsday. [QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Or just break it with her own fingers. Can’t a human woman do that? [/QUOTE] You do realize that this kind of thread could, pretty much by definition, _only_ be read by people completely unable to answer that question, right? 😃😉 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777/40 "2006-09-26T00:55:46Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Or just break it with her own fingers. Can’t a human woman do that? [/QUOTE] That was my point. Of course she can. Also - why don’t Superman and Supergirl just get it on? Lois Lane’s not worth it anyway. If they have to go with humans, can’t they restrain their own force? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/but-what-about-woman-of-steel-man-of-kleenex/373777.md?page=3)