# BWA-HA-HA! I KNEW I Was Right To SCORN HDTV! 3-D TV, Without Glasses, Appears! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 24, 2006, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033 "2006-08-24T13:25:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/1 "2006-08-24T13:25:30Z")
And it has ```auto near HDTV picture quality ``` !! 🆒😃 [http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,71627-0.html?tw=wn\_index\_14](http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,71627-0.html?tw=wn_index_14) > [@](#): > > I entered a conference room in Manhattan and a woman on the TV tossed a handful of rose petals out of the screen, where they floated in the air before my eyes. > > At least, that’s what I saw. In truth, the image resided on a perfectly flat, 42-inch LCD screen. But the 3-D illusion was fully believable, and I didn’t have to wear a dorky set of polarizing glasses. > [@](#): > > With the Philips technology, viewers can move around without losing much of the effect – one set of left/right views slips into another, with just a slight double-vision effect in the transitions. > > The TV can also display standard two-dimensional images, close to HD quality. O-HO-HO-HO-HO! I was **wise** to avoid HDTV! It will still be a few years until it reaches consumers, but a really good promo/marketing system will take care of _that_!! And check this— > [@](#): > > But Philips is developing software to convert standard video to 3-D by analyzing movement to determine the original depth position of people and objects. > > A standard laptop running Philips’ software was able to convert the DVD The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King into 3-D in real time and display it on Philips’s new 20-inch “3D 4YOU” LCD monitor – a retail-kiosk implementation of the 3-D screen. This I would pay for. HDTV was never worth a nickel to me, 3D TV is!! ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/2 "2006-08-24T13:31:22Z")
It’s called _lenticular screen 3D_. There’s been a special theater in Moscow showing lenticular movies for _decades_. Why it’s taken this long to get to TV, I don’t know. I don’t know why they never built another lentixcular theater, either. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/3 "2006-08-24T13:32:58Z")
More– [http://www.business-sites.philips.com/3dsolutions/about/Index.html](http://www.business-sites.philips.com/3dsolutions/about/Index.html) ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/4 "2006-08-24T15:26:47Z")
Yes, this sounds very cool. I’ll be seeing it demo-ed in a month or so. It had better be cooler than the last 3 companies who tried to show off their 3D TVs. How well did those do? Well, you don’t see any selling at Best Buy or Circuit yet, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/5 "2006-08-24T15:27:48Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > Yes, this sounds very cool. I’ll be seeing it demo-ed in a month or so. Give us a report. ---
**Author:** ![Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misery_Loves_Co)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/6 "2006-08-24T16:24:44Z")
One of the other uses is that two people can stand side by side and see two separate 2D images. That should perk up the ears of console gamers. . . ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/7 "2006-08-24T18:03:14Z")
Why laugh at HDTV. When do you think that 3D-TV will actually have a wide-range of programming, and be affordable? 5 years? 10 years? Never? Even if it was 2 years from now, HDTV is currently cheap enough and good enough that it would be worth it to go get one tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/8 "2006-08-24T18:06:10Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Even if it was 2 years from now, HDTV is currently cheap enough and good enough that it would be worth it to go get one tonight. “Good enough”? “Good enough” at _what?_ 😕 I’ve _seen_ HDTV, & the difference is so slight that I can only regard it as a fraud, to get Americans to blow another $200-$300 above & beyond a perfectly serviceable TV. Nobody who wears glasses can get much out of HDTV. ---
**Author:** ![audiobottle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@audiobottle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audiobottle)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/9 "2006-08-24T18:14:08Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > “Good enough”? > > “Good enough” at _what?_ 😕 > > I’ve _seen_ HDTV, & the difference is so slight that I can only regard it as a fraud, to get Americans to blow another $200-$300 above & beyond a perfectly serviceable TV. > > Nobody who wears glasses can get much out of HDTV. Wow, I disagree. I was just out shopping for TVs this past weekend, and after looking at the HD sets it almost hurt my eyes to look at the standard def TVs. I couldn’t afford an HD anyway, so it wasn’t a problem, but the quality difference is pretty obvious (to me at least). ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/10 "2006-08-24T18:33:39Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Nobody who wears glasses can get much out of HDTV. I don’t understand this statement. Could you explain to me why wearing glasses would prevent you from seeing more lines of resolution on a TV? ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/11 "2006-08-24T18:49:21Z")
I’m holding off until they merge it with [this technology](http://stupac2.blogspot.com/2006/08/new-technology-could-revolutionize.html). ---
**Author:** ![MrSquishy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@MrSquishy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrSquishy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/12 "2006-08-24T18:49:37Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > I’ve _seen_ HDTV, & the difference is so slight that I can only regard it as a fraud, to get Americans to blow another $200-$300 above & beyond a perfectly serviceable TV. Are you sure you’ve seen HDTV? I think you might be confused about what HDTV is. This, in particular, just doesn’t make any sense: > [@](#): > > Nobody who wears glasses can get much out of HDTV. You might want to check out HD again. I think maybe something at the TV store confused you last time. ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/13 "2006-08-24T18:52:17Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > I’ve _seen_ HDTV, & the difference is so slight that I can only regard it as a fraud, to get Americans to blow another $200-$300 above & beyond a perfectly serviceable TV. Are you sure you saw a HD signal on a HD set with the proper cabling? I have a HD set at home with digital cable. The difference is night and day between a “normal” channel and a 1080i channel. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/14 "2006-08-24T18:54:30Z")
More than you ever wanted to know about Lenticular 3D TV: > [@](#): > > AUTOSTEREOSCOPIC DISPLAYS USING LENTICULAR SCREENS > > Autostereoscopic displays are those which do not require the user to wear viewing aids. Displays using lenticular screens have been the subject of intensive research for nearly 80 years. The two Ives laid the foundations (US 666424, 725567, 771824, 1262954, 1814701, 1882424, 1883290, 1883291, 1905469, 1905716, 1916320, 1918705, 1937118, 1960011, 1970311, 1987443, 2002090, 2011932, 2012995, 2039648). Hundreds of researchers followed and there are perhaps 2000 patents and several hundred technical papers on the use of lenticular screens and related means for photography, motion pictures and television. It is impossible to cover more than a few of the more prominent or recent which relate most directly to video. Photographic systems have become common with both professional and consumer lenticular cameras. Motion picture applications have been rare with only the Russian lenticular glass screen being publicly shown in the USSR and at the Osaka Expo in 1970. Eight years before his invention of Holography in 1948, Gabor filed three patents on lenticular methods for movie projection(US 2351032,2351033,2351034) and in 1953 he filed what is probably the longest and most detailed patent ever granted on autostereo projection(GB 750911). Remarkably, later researchers seem to have almost completely ignored this work and even Gabor in his 1969 patent on holographic movie projection(US 3479111) fails to reference his last and most complete patent on this topic. > > . Lenticular television devices have been prototyped many times but whether the screens were inside the CRT( Wallman, JAP 58-38093) or on the front of the faceplate or projection screen(e.g., Yanagisawa), alignment of pixels with lenslets was a major problem. Makoto Kikuchi of Sony pursued this approach vigorously during the 80’s(JAP 53-20347, 56-126235, 56-126236, 56-128085, 56-128086, 56-132752, 56-134895, 56-168326, 57-3487, 57-11592, 57-13886, 57-14270, 57-17546, 57-18189, 57-26983, 57-27544, 57-27545, 57-27546, 57-67393, 57-72250, 57-75090, 57-83990, 57-83991, 57-87291, 57-106291, 57-123787, 58-29283, 58-31692, 58-103285, 58-115737). Tripp(US 3932699) was probably the first to build an adequate system, solving the alignment problem with a 13 inch diagonal fiber optic faceplate with a vertical lenticular screen. The input was a one inch camera tube covered with a specially made lenticular screen having 525 lenticulations per inch. This was made from a metal master hand engraved with the aid of a microscope(the same technique used to engrave dollar bills). This was perhaps the best autostereo CRT based system to date, but it was never duplicated and was soon cannibalized for the expensive fiber optics. Tripp however is a very flexible and ingenious man(one of his early inventions was the escalator) and he claims to have recently invented an extremely high resolution(2000 line pairs/mm) “spatial hologram without lasers” intended for use with his high resolution low dose x-ray system. > > The advent of flat panel displays, which do not have the problem of aligning pixels and lenticules through an intervening layer of glass is resulting in renewed interest in this approach(Ichinose). Work is ongoing in France(US4584604), England(Sheat) and Japan(Tetsutani et al.) on a system for a 3D picturephone. > > Another problem is that it is desirable to have a large number of these laterally multiplexed stereo pairs to minimize image “flipping” and give a “look around” capability(Schwartz). However, with most of these autostereo techniques, resolution and number of views are inversely related. With a 0.5mm lens size and 50 views, one needs a resolution of 10 microns, near that used for holographic plates and certainly beyond that of any available video display(with the possible exception of some of Tripp’s prototypes). When it becomes possible to interpolate many views from a stereo pair, it will stimulate the whole field of autostereoscopy. Scene interpolation has been the subject of much research for robotics and pattern recognition but only a few workers have attempted to apply this directly to autostereoscopic display(Oshima and Okoshi). > > Front or rear projection of stereo with lenticular screens has been investigated by many but has rarely resulted in commercial product. Sanyo Corp. has shown large rear projection lenticular systems in 1994 and offered a 50 inch diagonal model for $50,000. Image quality was modest and restriction on head position severe. Joji Hamasaki in Tokyo has been one of the most persistent and successful in this work with multiple video projection and large diameter screens as well as with the Sony beam index CRT(JAP 61-77839, Hamasaki). NHK and other has an active program with multiple LCD rear projection on a Toppan Corp. plastic lenticular screen(Isono). Viewing distance is limited to about 3 meters plus or minus 10cm and careful head positioning is necessary to avoid pseudoscopic zones(problems for all lenticular systems). Hamasaki’s efforts and those of NHK are shown on the 3D videotapes “3D TV Technology Vols 1 and 2” marketed by 3D TV Corp. A vigorous program was conducted at the Heinrich Herz Institute in Berlin with front and rear projection on lenticular screens custom made by Philips in Eindhoven(Borner). Philips has extremely high precision computer controlled diamond milling equipment for making lenticular screens for their videoprojectors. A 1500 line screen can be milled in a plastic master in about 2 hours and the poured acrylic screen rapidly cured with uv . Minute corrections in the screen can be reliably programmed, engraved, cured and ready to test in one day for a one time set up fee of about $25,000 and a cost of about $20,000 for a 1M by 1M pair of screens in prototype quantities. This process used to take months and was not very accurate. The final screen is accurate and repeatable to one micron. Dr. Schmitz demonstrated this by making a screen which copied the eye of a bee and proved its extreme accuracy with electron microscope photos. This may result in commercial lenticular systems in the next few years. [http://www.3dmagic.com/articles/sit.html](http://www.3dmagic.com/articles/sit.html) ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/15 "2006-08-24T19:03:10Z")
> [@Bosda](#): > > I’ve seen HDTV, & the difference is so slight that I can only regard it as a fraud This isn’t emporer’s new clothes territory, man. This isn’t like swapping out your speaker cables. It’s not even close. A person with no training could tell the difference 100 times out of 100 (and yes, I do mean without the aspect ratio giveaway). Whoever’s demo you saw (and that could have been the high school kids at Best Buy), or it could have been a poor source, like a DVD (not HD), didn’t know what they were doing. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/16 "2006-08-24T19:12:54Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > "I’ve _seen_ HDTV, & the difference is so slight that I can only regard it as a fraud, to get Americans to blow another $200-$300 above & beyond a perfectly serviceable TV. Apparently were not watching the same HDTV as you. Watch any sporting event on a 50" or larger HDTV with a 1080i signal and widescreen next to a 50" standard definition picture and then tell me there is no difference. I watch Hi-Def baseball games and am just amazed that I can see: dust in the air when a player slides, indvidual blades of grass, sweat on a players face, fans behind home plate facial expressions. My wife calls it “spooky” since she can now see age spots, freckels, body hair, and makeup on Leno and Letterman. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/17 "2006-08-24T19:33:49Z")
My bespectacled eyes see a huge difference between standard & HD pictures. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/18 "2006-08-24T19:52:02Z")
The difference may have been in comparing a 25" HDTV to a 25" standard def TV. The smaller the set, the less noticeable the difference, especially if both are processing hte same signal. Scale the sizes up, though, to 30, 40 or 50 inches, and the difference is dramatic. What looks like complete crap when you sit close to a 50 inch tv will look like “normal” tv on a 50 inch HDTV. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/19 "2006-09-20T12:48:52Z")
Commercial 3D-TV. 3 years away? > **[BBC NEWS | Technology | 3D TV 'could be three years away'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5360742.stm)** > > 3D television could be in homes within three years, according a research consortium. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033/20 "2006-09-20T12:57:03Z")
At least a decade, probably two, if it even catches on at all. Do you think 3D movies were a bust because of the glasses? 3D is a gimmick, not a natural progression of display formats. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwa-ha-ha-i-knew-i-was-right-to-scorn-hdtv-3-d-tv-without-glasses-appears/370033.md?page=2)