# BWAHA: Driver's cooperate against tailgater! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750 "2005-05-20T15:52:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/201 "2005-05-26T16:06:39Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Okay - let’s summarize: > > 1. Does everybody agree that driving at an unsafe speed is bad? Yes. > > 2. Does everybody agree that tailgating is bad? Yes. > > 3. Okay - if someone comes up behind you, driving at an unsafe speed and tailgating - are they bad? Yes. > > 4. Now - regardless of what you were doing - EVEN if you were trying to pass someone yourself at the time - is it safer to get out of the way of that bad, unsafe tailgater and let them pass? Yes. > > And, as other posters have pointed out, AAA and a major insurance company state as much. > > Isn’t that the end of it? OK, so next time I’m being tailgated in the slow lane with a concrete barrier and minimal shoulder to the right of me and a solid line of traffic to the left of me, what do you suggest I do? Especially if I’m going 5 or 10 mph or more slower than I choose to because that’s what the car 2 or 3 cars ahead of me is doing? You see, I don’t often get tailgated when I’m blocking a lane; if I can, I’ll move over. Instead, the places I get tailgated most are on on-ramps, two-lane roads (one in each direction), or in heavy rush hour traffic where moving over, assuming there’s a couple of car lengths free to one side of me or the other, means I wind up tailgating someone else. I do realize that there are some people who are simply comfortable with less room around them than I am. I don’t think tailgaters are always malicious or bullying; I think they just genuinely don’t realize that being followed someone at a car length or less at 60 or 70 mph can be disconcerting. Fair enough. I also know how much room I’m comfortable having available if I need to slow down or stop suddenly, and that’s not enough for me. Remember, in ordinary, 40 mph traffic on a two-lane road a couple of years ago, I did need to stop suddenly because the kid2 cars ahead of me swerved across the lane into on-coming traffic. I was glad the person behind me wasn’t tailgating, and I was glad I had room between me and the person ahead of me. In the situation described in the first paragraph, I will leave a little more room between me and the car ahead of me just because I want a bit of my margin of safety back. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/202 "2005-05-26T17:07:35Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > OK, so next time I’m being tailgated in the slow lane with a concrete barrier and minimal shoulder to the right of me and a solid line of traffic to the left of me, what do you suggest I do? Especially if I’m going 5 or 10 mph or more slower than I choose to because that’s what the car 2 or 3 cars ahead of me is doing? Drive directly into the concrete barrier at top speed. Your fiery death will teach tailgaters everywhere a lesson. Seriously, let’s assume **WordMan** is talking about people in the passing lane, or else everyone will chime in with unsolvable traffic situations that aren’t even remotely applicable to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/203 "2005-05-27T01:27:45Z")
> [@Dante](#): > > Drive directly into the concrete barrier at top speed. Your fiery death will teach tailgaters everywhere a lesson. > > Seriously, let’s assume **WordMan** is talking about people in the passing lane, or else everyone will chime in with unsolvable traffic situations that aren’t even remotely applicable to the OP. Yep - that is my intent. Thanks. **Siege** - the situation you describe is very different from the ones that this thread is focussed on and worthy of its own thread if you want to go there, IMHO. So - either **CG** - care to comment? Everyone agrees that the tailgaters are bad. Experts seem to suggest that letting them pass is the best approach to dealing with them. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/204 "2005-05-27T10:52:37Z")
Yes, but situations like the one I described, which I’m far more likely to encounter, are the reason I’m going to be a lot less charitably inclined when someone comes up behind me when I am in the passing lane. I’ve also seen the same person tailgate in both situations. CJ ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/205 "2005-05-27T12:19:33Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > So - either **CG** - care to comment? Everyone agrees that the tailgaters are bad. Experts seem to suggest that letting them pass is the best approach to dealing with them. Sure, I’ll comment. I disagree. The experts don’t… can’t… have enough information to make a factual determination about which behavior is safer in the long run, so they go with what seems better only in the immediate sense. My basic philsophy is : Rule One : Drive safely, observing all rules of the road. Rule Two : Drive courteously. Rule Three : If someone is observed as being an aggressive driving jerk, disregard Rule Two with regard to that person. Which means that if I’m in a lane that’s backed up for construction, and I see someone behind me break out of the lane and zip up to where I am, trying to get back in, there’s no way in hell I’d let them in, whereas I might do so for someone driving along slowly looking like they got caught unawares by the situation. It also means that while I ordinarily clear out of the left-lane posthaste after passing, I might dawdle a while if someone has zoomed up to my bumper in the meantime. I won’t respond to rudeness and unsafe driving behavior with spineless, fawning courtesy. It rewards and encourages the unsafe behavior to do so. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/206 "2005-05-27T12:29:07Z")
Tailgaters should be shot on site. With that said what would be the proper way for the ESM to have resolved this. You are the one blocking the fast lane and really should either pass or fall back and allow her to pass (again assuming she doesn’t tailgate). Ideally how could this have gone so she could be on her merry way? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/207 "2005-05-27T12:29:18Z")
Rule of thumb: If you feel the need to give random strangers “lessons,” then it is undoubtedly YOU who needs a refresher in manners. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/208 "2005-05-27T12:52:03Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Rule of thumb: If you feel the need to give random strangers “lessons,” then it is undoubtedly YOU who needs a refresher in manners. I prefer to think of it as avoiding teaching them the lesson that their tactic works, rather than thinking of it as teaching them the lesson that it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/209 "2005-05-27T13:01:13Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > My basic philsophy is : > > Rule One : Drive safely, observing all rules of the road. > Rule Two : Drive courteously. > Rule Three : If someone is observed as being an aggressive driving jerk, disregard Rule Two with regard to that person. The Achilles Heel in your philosophy is your failure to recognize and concede that Rule Three makes YOU dangerous. You should ALWAYS drive safely. Why? So people don’t get hurt. It’s called maturity. > [@](#): > > …It also means that while I ordinarily clear out of the left-lane posthaste after passing, I might dawdle a while if someone has zoomed up to my bumper in the meantime. I won’t respond to rudeness and unsafe driving behavior with spineless, fawning courtesy. This is what Scumpup has been trying to impress upon you. Your ego, not your brain, is calling the shots. “Spineless, fawning courtesy”? Could you be more of a drama queen? A mature person defuses anger, especially in situations where lives are at stake, as opposed to perpetuating and promoting it. > [@](#): > > It rewards and encourages the unsafe behavior to do so. So you’re like the guy who beats up prostitutes to “discourage their unsafe behavior.” Basically you’re doing the world a favor, huh? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/210 "2005-05-27T13:04:36Z")
Now, what if it’s a cop tailgating you? Saw it today. Gentleman wasn’t cruising for tickets, he simply got in the left lane, crawled to within three inches of someone’s bumper, and waited for them to pull over. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/211 "2005-05-27T13:15:35Z")
CandidGamera, Are you this intent on “teaching lessons” on courtesy in all facets of life, or just when you have a couple thousand pounds of metal and glass armor to give you a feeling of security? I suspect the latter. Otherwise, you must be one big, tough motherfucker who gets into physical altercations on a daily basis, given how common rudeness is. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/212 "2005-05-27T13:16:52Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > I prefer to think of it as avoiding teaching them the lesson that their tactic works, rather than thinking of it as teaching them the lesson that it doesn’t. That’s because you have a penchant for transforming your personal vices into virtues. You can see everyone else’s flaws, including random people on the highway, yet you are blind to your own. You could learn a lot and grow a lot as a driver, not to mention as a human being, if you’d take a sledge hammer to those cement shoes you’re wearing and actually _listen_ to what other people have to say. Instead of immediately replying back with some glib answer, reflect on what people are saying to you. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/213 "2005-05-27T13:23:46Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > The Achilles Heel in your philosophy is your failure to recognize and concede that Rule Three makes YOU dangerous. You should ALWAYS drive safely. Why? So people don’t get hurt. It’s called maturity. Incorrect. Read again, please. Rule One is always in effect. > [@](#): > > This is what Scumpup has been trying to impress upon you. Your ego, not your brain, is calling the shots. “Spineless, fawning courtesy”? Could you be more of a drama queen? I’m just not very impressed with Scumpup, I guess. > [@](#): > > So you’re like the guy who beats up prostitutes to “discourage their unsafe behavior.” Basically you’re doing the world a favor, huh? Of course not. You seem to be missing a number of distinctions with your prostitute analogy, most importantly - I’m not taking action to do this. Or rather, I’m taking as little action as possible. It’s more effort and less safe for me to speed up and get over out of the guy’s way than it is for me to ease off the accelerator slowly. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/214 "2005-05-27T13:25:45Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > CandidGamera, > > Are you this intent on “teaching lessons” on courtesy in all facets of life, or just when you have a couple thousand pounds of metal and glass armor to give you a feeling of security? I suspect the latter. Otherwise, you must be one big, tough motherfucker who gets into physical altercations on a daily basis, given how common rudeness is. I don’t reward behavior I disagree with. Ever. I can’t think of a non-road situation that is as clearly unsafe and rude as tailgating, though. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/215 "2005-05-27T13:27:18Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > I’m just not very impressed with Scumpup, I guess. Somehow, I shall soldier on in spite of that. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/216 "2005-05-27T13:29:29Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > That’s because you have a penchant for transforming your personal vices into virtues. You can see everyone else’s flaws, including random people on the highway, yet you are blind to your own. Well, it’s very fortunate you came along then. I was wondering who’d been elected Moral Authority of the Universe. _Someone_ has to be able to factually determine which characteristics are vices and which are virtues. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/217 "2005-05-27T13:31:46Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > I don’t reward behavior I disagree with. Ever. I can’t think of a non-road situation that is as clearly unsafe and rude as tailgating, though. In other words, I was correct. Linejumpers, cellphone yakkers, and all the other assorted rude people and outright bullies basically get a pass when there is a real and immediate chance of you getting an asskicking. Perhaps you think disapproving thoughts at _really hard_? I’ve changed my opinion on you. Previously, I thought you were just an ego-driven jerk on the highway. Now I think you’re a chickenshit, too. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/218 "2005-05-27T13:32:58Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > In other words, I was correct. Linejumpers, cellphone yakkers, and all the other assorted rude people and outright bullies basically get a pass when there is a real and immediate chance of you getting an asskicking. Perhaps you think disapproving thoughts at _really hard_? > I’ve changed my opinion on you. Previously, I thought you were just an ego-driven jerk on the highway. Now I think you’re a chickenshit, too. That should read “Perhaps you think disapproving thoughts at them _really hard_?” ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/219 "2005-05-27T13:34:47Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > In other words, I was correct. Linejumpers, cellphone yakkers, and all the other assorted rude people and outright bullies basically get a pass when there is a real and immediate chance of you getting an asskicking. Perhaps you think disapproving thoughts at _really hard_? > I’ve changed my opinion on you. Previously, I thought you were just an ego-driven jerk on the highway. Now I think you’re a chickenshit, too. No, in otherwords, you were exactly incorrect. I don’t let people jump in line in front of me, either. I can’t recall the last time that’s happened… 5th grade, maybe? What’s rude about talking on a cellphone? ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/220 "2005-05-27T13:51:38Z")
I knew a guy who was an amateur go-kart racer. Whenever he encountered a stubborn asshole who wouldn’t leave the fast lane, he would start by flashing his lights and honking. If this wasn’t enough to make said asshole move aside, he wouldn’t hesitate to give them a light bump on their rear bumper. That was usually enough to get the message through. Although I understand that this behaviour is quite dangerous, I believe that this is the most appropriate action for the likes of **CG** (both of them). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750.md?page=12)