# BWAHA: Driver's cooperate against tailgater! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750 "2005-05-20T15:52:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/61 "2005-05-21T17:00:38Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > Me: 1 You: 0 The guy behind your tailgater with a pregnant wife and 2 kids in the back: -4. There is more in the world than you and the ass-jack right behind/in front/beside you. This thread should be moved to **The Pit** so people can properly express the sentiments toward people who play games with 3000+ lbs of steel containing half a million foot-lbs of kinetic energy. And people complain about the dangers of accidental firearm injuries? Phew. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/62 "2005-05-21T18:15:59Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > This thread should be moved to **The Pit** so people can properly express the sentiments toward people who play games with 3000+ lbs of steel containing half a million foot-lbs of kinetic energy. I’d say that the person who is tailgating at a foot or less is playing games as well, and far more dangerous than the others from a vehicular standpoint. There’s no signal you can make at one foot that hasn’t already been sent by the time you’re a car length from the person you’re tailgating. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/63 "2005-05-21T19:47:28Z")
Is a tailgater doing wrong? Absolutely. None of you self-appointed traffic cops have convinced me that your retaliatory actions improve the situation either in that incident or societaly. Instead, we go from one driver behaving as an asshole to two or more drivers behaving as assholes. It is counterintuitive to me that increasing the highway asshole quotient is a positive change. Feel free to explain what I am apparently missing in your POV, but mainly it seems to be all about just _which_ asshole is going to be the asshole in front. As an aside, when I taught Jr. High I frequently saw similar behavior among 7th grade boys whenever they were required to line up for anything. Luckily, their assholery wasn’t compounded by high speed fatalities. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/64 "2005-05-21T19:47:53Z")
I’m a bit ambivalent about this. Yes, the OP and his brother-in-arms may have made the situation slightly more dangerous than if they just parted like the freakin’ Red Sea before Moses. On the other hand, the offense is pretty minor compared with someone who’s tailgating someone who’s _already speeding_, if only slightly. Excessive speeding is a menace. Tailgating is a _huge_ menace. I think it would be _perfect_ if the standard response from drivers to tailgaters was conforming to the speed limit, closing ranks, and adopting a _“YOU SHALL NOT PASS!”_ attitude. Preferably while a passenger phones in the tailgater’s position and heading, just as you would a drunk driver. You don’t say “Hey! That guy’s _drinking!_ Let’s get the hell out of his way. May the road rise to meet you, intoxicated driver – godspeed and good luck.” In the short term, it _would_ be a safer course of action. Except that it leaves a menace on the road. Tailgaters? Same deal. No freaking sympathy from these quarters. I wouldn’t feel _too_ sore about it people started taking them out with caltrops, provided their was no traffic behind them and the oncoming lane was clear. Just so long as they _stop freaking being rewarded for tailgating_. Actually, I guess I’m not that ambivalent about it, after all. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/65 "2005-05-21T20:41:52Z")
There is no earthly reason to be **driving** in the left/passing lane. My opinion on the OP: assholes all around. ESM should not have been tailgating, and Gabe shouldn’t have been loitering in the passing lane. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/66 "2005-05-21T20:46:46Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Just so long as they _stop freaking being rewarded for tailgating_. I guess I don’t understand tailgaters - is their aim to pass the car in front? How will tailgating help accomplish this goal? I always thought they just want the car in front to speed up, because they’re too lazy to change lanes and pass safely. So slowing down and forcing them to pass is not “rewarding” them. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/67 "2005-05-21T20:51:25Z")
> [@SusanStoHelit](#): > > There is no earthly reason to be **driving** in the left/passing lane. > > My opinion on the OP: assholes all around. ESM should not have been tailgating, and Gabe shouldn’t have been loitering in the passing lane. The OP is in CA. Only a handful of freeways are more than two lanes per side and those are usually only in metro areas like LA or SF bay. Tractor trailers are restricted to 55mph and the slower lane. Cars cruising in the “fast lane” is the norm. Otherwise you would see hundreds of cars per hour playing leapfrog around every truck and or bus. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/68 "2005-05-21T22:46:38Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > The guy behind your tailgater with a pregnant wife and 2 kids in the back: -4. There is more in the world than you and the ass-jack right behind/in front/beside you. Your situation is completely hypothetical, and I will submit, completely irrational. If the guy behind me is driving so badly that he rear-ends me, then yeah, that _is_ bad. I would think the guy behind the tailgater with the pregnant wife and kids in the back would have the presence of mind to not tailgate him . . . The highways around here are long and empty. You kind of get to know who you’re travelling around. I don’t f\*ck around in situations, but I do **flash taillights**. I have a tendency to use my rear-view mirrors and look at the situation, so don’t asssume I’m some John Wayne on the road, thankyouverymuch. But, I’ll quiet down now. I do not want this to turn into a Pit thread. Tripler Ticket free since ‘03. (Ain’t kiddin’ neither!) ---
**Author:** ![Omphaloskeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bcef8e/32.png) [@Omphaloskeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omphaloskeptic)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/69 "2005-05-21T23:33:06Z")
I really don’t understand how the pro-asshole people here can believe their rationalizations about “teaching a lesson.” Let’s see: someone is tailgating you. That means he is either (1) in a really big hurry, or (2) an asshole just like you. In case (2), **he’s not going to learn a lesson from the likes of you**. Case in point, this thread: The OP has _admitted_ his assholery but decided to wear it as a badge of honor rather than change his behavior, even after suffering not just the wrath of the tailgater but also the criticism of several apparently informed people on the boards. (Of course, he’s got others cheering him on, in the grand tradition of teenagers everywhere. It’s always easier to do stupid things in groups.) Great, just what we need more of on the roads: arrogant know-it-all assholes. In case (1), even if he knows it’s wrong to tailgate, he’s decided that it’s worth it in this case (the “wife in labor” situation we always hear about). In neither case is any “lesson” you give, short of causing an accident, likely to stick. In an accident, **Tripler** ’s anecdotes to the contrary, I suspect you’re about as likely as the tailgater is to suffer injury. Engine-in-front cars are more easily spun with a rear-end collision than a front-end collision–especially if they’re really light in back, like (say) an unladen pickup, and once you start spinning at highway speeds things can get really exciting really fast, even if you’re in a way-cool F150. I really can’t say it any better than **Scumpup** , so I’ll just quote him again: > [@](#): > > It is counterintuitive to me that increasing the highway asshole quotient is a positive change. Feel free to explain what I am apparently missing in your POV, but mainly it seems to be all about just which asshole is going to be the asshole in front. If your goal is to be safe, you want to spend as little time as possible close to other vehicles. Every second you spend passing that car is another second that he might choose to swerve into you, and that you are unable to swerve to avoid the retread that just came off the semi in front of you. Every second you spend tailgating, or being tailgated, is just another second where you’re just praying to Darwin to be part of another one of those huge chain-reaction collisions the rest of us get to read about on the news. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/70 "2005-05-22T00:24:57Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > Your situation is completely hypothetical, and I will submit, completely irrational. Yep, you’re right. It’s completely irrational. When you and tailgater make contact, spin out of control at 65+ mph and drift into other lanes and or roll your vehicles (a result I saw on my drive in on Thursday), that won’t affect the people beside or around you the least bit, nor will it delay traffic for an hour our more. I’m not clear on why you can’t just clear the lane, let the tailgater go by, and return to the business of getting to where you are going. Blocking him or her isn’t going to “teach them a lesson” and prevent them from doing so in the future. It’s just an ego trip (“Hey, I didn’t let that jerk push _me_ around!”) that endangers other people. People are often jerks, from the pricks who yack on their cell phones in a restaurant, to the twits who rummage through the bagel bin with bare hands, to the imbeciles on the road who drive imprudently and inattentively. There’s no reason to increase the level of agitation by responding in kind. If they’re truely driving in a manner that is dangerous, pick up the phone and call the authorities. There’s no reason to be one of those morons driving three and four abreast, blocking the road 'cause “I’m going the speed limit and nobody should be going faster than me!” :rolleyes: Leave your ego in the map compartment while driving, lest you end up, or worse, result in someone else ending up in one of **scumpup** ’s body bags. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/71 "2005-05-22T00:54:07Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > I’m not clear on why you can’t just clear the lane, let the tailgater go by, and return to the business of getting to where you are going. Blocking him or her isn’t going to “teach them a lesson” and prevent them from doing so in the future. It’s just an ego trip (“Hey, I didn’t let that jerk push _me_ around!”) that endangers other people. You assume that every highway in the U.S. is a four-lane highway. You also assume that I’m actively blocking him. Tripler You need to get out of the city. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/72 "2005-05-22T01:05:21Z")
Hey, **CynicalGabe** … so if your friends decided to jump off a bridge, would you do it too? Also, I wonder, how much of this had to do with the fact that the woman was driving a far more expensive and superior vehicle compared to your’s? I find envy and pettiness rears it’s ugly head at the most surprising times and largely under plausably deniable circumstances. Meh… probably just me being cynical, Gabe. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/73 "2005-05-22T01:16:45Z")
The last time I went extremely and deliberately slow in front of a tailgater, it was winter in Pennsylvania, it was about 22:30 and we’d had freezing rain all evening. After a fourteen hour day at work, all I really wanted to do was get home safely without wrecking my car on the icy roads. PennDoT was out salting the four-lane highways, but since most of the roads I have to take on my route home are secondary state roads, they hadn’t gotten to those yet. I drive a 2000 Chevy Cavalier, and I had my mud/snow tires on it, but everybody who’s driven on freezing rain knows there is no real traction when there’s a half inch of ice covering the road. You’re taking your chances, at best, to skate your car along and keep it between the lines. High speed in these conditions is not something I’d want to attempt if the road was wide open with nobody else on it. Maybe donuts in a large, very empty parking lot, but on a winding, hilly two lane? Not a chance in hell. As it happens, winter in Pennsylvania is also a time when many of the whitetail deer are moving around excessively. So add to freezing rain and snow falling on the ground, the very common occurance of a deer hitting the roadway directly in front of my car. Deer’s hooves have little traction on pavement as it is, and even when they ‘freeze’ and stop running, they’ll tend to slide. This is more problematic on the aforementioned icy road. Doing the best I could to keep the car’s headlights in front of me and make my trek home, I happened to notice some type of vehicle rapidly closing distance behind me. This person got so close to my rear bumper that **I could not see their headlights above the deck of my trunk** in the rear view mirror. I slowed down. I didn’t brake, but I did slow down. I was going all of a whopping 5 miles an hour when, of all the odds, a deer **did** enter the road just in front of me. How the hell I managed not to hit it, I still have no idea. I thought for sure it was going to be me hitting the deer, and then the tailgater hitting me. I can definitely see times that it is not only appropriate to slow down when being tailgated, but it’s actually the _responsible_ thing to do. No need to play games with them, but there’s also no need to risk your neck for them. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/74 "2005-05-22T01:29:42Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > You assume that every highway in the U.S. is a four-lane highway. > > **You also assume that I’m actively blocking him.** > > Tripler > You need to get out of the city. Which is, if you’ll check, the essential premise of the OP, that he and another driver intentionally blocked both lanes to prevent the tailgater from passing, instead of speeding up/slowing down and moving into the right-most lane to allow the person behind you to pass. That, like pulling aside and letting faster-moving drivers to pass you on winding mountain roads, is (un)common curtesy. And I drive outside of the city, on two lane highways frequently; I still don’t see the need for the behavior the OP is promulgating and promoting. Naturally, if you’re in conditions where going faster is hazardous, as with **catsix** ’s example, you slow down and, when the opportunity is available, pull aside and let the other driver on past. If their driving is indeed dangerous or obnoxious they’ll get their due, hopefully from a natural hazard or a citation issued by a police officer, rather than in a multi-car collision, but in any case it won’t be with your or of your culpability. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/75 "2005-05-22T01:35:36Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Which is, if you’ll check, the essential premise of the OP, that he and another driver intentionally blocked both lanes to prevent the tailgater from passing, instead of speeding up/slowing down and moving into the right-most lane to allow the person behind you to pass. I never commented on the OP. I commented on my position as a pickup truck driver. You replied to my statement that I can somewhat reasonably expect to drive away from a rear-end accident. To wit, I responded, thus your reply. Please, don’t confuse the issues. Tripler Here’s your $0.98 ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/76 "2005-05-23T04:26:37Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > I hate to tell you this but what you and Blue Cool Dude were doing is also agressive driving. I agree > [@msmith537](#): > > Well, I for one am in wholehearted agreement with you, regardless of what anyone else says. > [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > It’s more of a guidline than a regulation, set by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. And we all know about those. I will refrain from making _PotC_ references. > [@scr4](#): > > Don’t you think the tailgater will slow down (or pass you) if he/she sees your brake lights go on, and then notice you gradually slowing down? Actually, in my experience, the tailgater will pass you and then slow waaaay down to block you in response to your flashing your brake lights. > [@EarthStone777](#): > > Don’t you think the tailgater will slow down (or pass you) if he/she sees your brake lights go on, and then notice you gradualy slowing down? But manly, nonetheless. Yes, yes, yes, I’m being a wiseguy. > [@Imasquare](#): > > Are you sure it was a woman? My experience of bullies (this includes tailgaters) is that they are usually agressive, low-status males. I have come across the occasional female road bully but it is quite rare. Positive. She was literally sitting about 7 feet from my rear bumper for a period of time. Plus I saw her as she passed me. > [@Scumpup](#): > > As an aside, when I taught Jr. High I frequently saw similar behavior among 7th grade boys whenever they were required to line up for anything. I’ve noticed similar behavior in people of both genders, of all ages. Maybe the problem isn’t people acting like kids, but kids imitating idiotic adults. I’m not sure what my point is, just saying that the “grow up” counterargument tends to oversimplify things a bit. > [@SusanStoHelit](#): > > There is no earthly reason to be **driving** in the left/passing lane. I’m not sure what you mean by this, but I again deny that I was loitering. I was going over the speed limit, and only temporarily happened to match speeds with the guy in the slow lane. And I was not even driving abreast of him. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Hey, CynicalGabe… so if your friends decided to jump off a bridge, would you do it too? > > Also, I wonder, how much of this had to do with the fact that the woman was driving a far more expensive and superior vehicle compared to your’s? I find envy and pettiness rears it’s ugly head at the most surprising times and largely under plausably deniable circumstances. > > Meh… probably just me being cynical, Gabe. 1. Yeah, haven’t heard that one before. 2. A more expensive and superior vehicle? More expensive yes. Superior? Only from the point of view of a guy driving it desperately trying to prove how massive his penis is. My car gets 35MPG. I call that superior. 3. Envy actually has nothing to do with it. I hate SUVs. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/77 "2005-05-23T07:03:11Z")
If the OP _could_ be tailgated in the left lane, he was wrong. At highway speeds, ie not traffic jam crawling speeds, no exceptions come to mind. There are people who if IF IF the OP was lucky would see to it that he rearends them. You get in front of them, take the fuse for the brake light out, and slam on the brake with all your might. You’re going to hit them, they’re pros. I also know someone who has written the license plate down, paid $75 to a private investigator to get the name and address, and went and had a ‘nice little chat’ with the perceived asshole in person. It could have just as easily been a ‘nice little burglary, lying in wait, bind and torture for a week before finally letting them die’. And that’s if they don’t shoot you through the head behind the wheel or follow and stab you in each of your kidneys. Or plant drugs in your car and call in a tip. It’s just not something you mess around with. ---
**Author:** ![mza662](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f4b2a3/32.png) [@mza662](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mza662)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/78 "2005-05-23T08:00:25Z")
That is classic 🙂 I do that all the time but I’ve never had an accomplice like that. If you’re going to be a prick and tailgate me then i’m going to purposefully annoy you. Don’t like it, don’t tailgate me. Though in Australia we have no ‘fast-lane’ etc. so it’s easy. The thing that annoys me is when 2 lanes are both going UNDER the limit. At least go the limit, if someones trying to pass you and you’re on the limit, they can get stuffed. Again, great work 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![unclviny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e274bd/32.png) [@unclviny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclviny)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/79 "2005-05-23T08:46:26Z")
To all you idiots who think they are traffic Cops: If you are going 3,000 miles per hour in a 55 zone and someone pulls up behind you MOVE!!!. Myself I feel safer with the bad drivers out in front of me where I can keep an eye on them. If you are driving next to someone you have limited “escape routes” for you and the other guy, if one of you gets a blowout or has to dodge some debris in the road you are MUCH more likely to be in an accident. This world is full of drivers (like me) who would rather not die because you are too fucking stupid to operate a motor vehicle, get a clue, this is NOT about asserting your manhood!! it’s about driving safely. Unclviny ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/80 "2005-05-23T13:07:32Z")
Several of you have come pretty close to crossing the line in this thread when it comes to insulting another poster. Unfortunately, **unclviny** , you raced right over that line with your last post here. Please don’t do it again. To everyone else: remember where you are. This thread is not in the **Pit** , so watch what you say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750.md?page=5)