# BWAHA: Driver's cooperate against tailgater! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750 "2005-05-20T15:52:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/101 "2005-05-23T19:23:06Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > I can’t say this any simpler. > > There is no such thing as tailgating in the left lane. If someone is ‘tailgating’ you in the left lane then you’re driving too slow. Get over. 70 mph Speed Limit. Doing 74, passing a long line of slower traffic, to my right. Tractor Trailer drives up behind me at 80+ and then hovers two feet off my bumper. You are wrong, wrong, wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/102 "2005-05-23T19:31:45Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > 70 mph Speed Limit. Doing 74, passing a long line of slower traffic, to my right. Tractor Trailer drives up behind me at 80+ … Why can’t you see the tractor trailor coming up behind you and move out of the way? > [@](#): > > … and then hovers two feet off my bumper. The truck driver in your example is wrong to do this. But, you are wrong also to be blocking the passing lane. You would not be tailgated by him if you simply moved out of the way or were not there in the first place. If you don’t like it, then stay in the middle lane. > [@](#): > > You are wrong, wrong, wrong. From what I see it’s the “anti-OP” posters here who are without exception placing blame exactly where it belongs: On all three drivers from the OP’s story. It’s only you “pro-OP” posters who seem to not be capable of understanding that the left hand lane is a passing lane. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/103 "2005-05-23T19:36:39Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Why can’t you see the tractor trailor coming up behind you and move out of the way? I can. But between the time I first see him come around the curve behind me until the time my rearview mirror reads “Peterbilt”, I still haven’t finished passing the unbroken line of cars. > [@](#): > > The truck driver in your example is wrong to do this. But, you are wrong also to be blocking the passing lane. You would not be tailgated by him if you simply moved out of the way or were not there in the first place. If you don’t like it, then stay in the middle lane. So if I moved out of the way… would that be onto the left shoulder of the interstate, or into the space occupied by the cars to my right? Some of use haven’t yet mastered the art of superpositioning solid objects on top of one another… then again, the other option you “give” me presumes clairvoyance, so I’m baffled as to which is more likely. And what middle lane? > [@](#): > > From what I see it’s the “anti-OP” posters here who are without exception placing blame exactly where it belongs: On all three drivers from the OP’s story. It’s only you “pro-OP” posters who seem to not be capable of understanding that the left hand lane is a passing lane. That’s why I was using that same left-hand lane to pass. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/104 "2005-05-23T19:47:51Z")
Deja-vu. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/105 "2005-05-23T19:53:58Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > I can. But between the time I first see him come around the curve behind me until the time my rearview mirror reads “Peterbilt”, I still haven’t finished passing the unbroken line of cars. If the truck can do 80+ mph on it, then the road is straight enough that you can see for a good long way. > [@](#): > > So if I moved out of the way… would that be onto the left shoulder of the interstate, or into the space occupied by the cars to my right? Some of use haven’t yet mastered the art of superpositioning solid objects on top of one another… then again, the other option you “give” me presumes clairvoyance, so I’m baffled as to which is more likely. There is no room for you to slide in with the cars on the right? So this entire line of cars to your right consists of tailgaters? Why aren’t you pitting them? This seems like a pretty far fetched scenario. A line of tailgaters to your right is so long that you cannot pass, meanwhile a truck doing 80 jumps out from behind a corner and is on your bumper? > [@](#): > > And what middle lane? I was assuming a 3-4 lane highway. Whatever. Replace it with “right lane”. It doesn’t matter. In most cases you should have plenty of time to either slow down or speed up to get over to the right lane before a truck comes up behind you, even if there is a long line of cars with no room to get in. > [@](#): > > That’s why I was using that same left-hand lane to pass. Not very well you weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/106 "2005-05-23T19:55:16Z")
I used to do stuff like this. Then I had to transport a rattlesnakebit dog to the only vet-hospital in 100 miles that kept antivenom. Maybe not life or death, but it was my girlfriend’s dog, entrusted to my care, and life was really going to suck if that dog died. Nobody activly blocked me, but I did get a couple of fingers thrown my way, which is something I might have done based on the theory of “WhyTF didn’t you leave sooner Ahole?” Since that event, I now assume that there is still a 99.9% chance that they are just Aholes, but I really don’t want to slow down the .1% that are getting the high-risk pregnacy to the delivery room or whatever. The dog lived with no health problems, BTW. Nose turned pink (black dog) at site of bite. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/107 "2005-05-23T19:58:42Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > Suddenly, out of the gloom, I see in my rearview mirror Evil Soccer Mom in SUV (ESM). > > ESM approaches the rear of my vehicle at a rapid rate, quickly closing the distance, and reducing the DMV-mandated following distance of 2 car lengths to about 2 feet. You saw her coming. You had time to make a judgement about how fast she was approaching you. At this point, there were only two appropriate responses: 1. Speed up and get ahead of the truck on your right and move in, allowing the vehicle behind you to pass. 2. Slow down and slide in behind the vehicle to your right, wait until ESM passes. At this point you are free to move back into the passing lane and get around the (slightly) slower moving vehicle. Personally I’d have sped up and moved over, but if you had the time to safely do so you could have also slowed down. There was not, at least in your OP, and unbroken line of vehicles impeding your movement to the right. Hypothetically you’re correct; in reality your the kind of smug jackass that helps tie up traffic and then complains when others overreact. Not to justify ESM’s dangerous behaviour, but maybe she had a sick child in the back\*. Probably not, but is it your place to try and discern this? And is it a ~safe~ thing to do? \*Even if there was a sick child in the back her behavior is still dangerous and unacceptable but people often react stupidly in stressful situations. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/108 "2005-05-23T20:00:49Z")
> [@](#): > > However, in what is perhaps the greatest disappointment of the day thus far, my engine once again proves insufficient to provide the necessary power to overtake her. You know, if you were driving a Man’s car, with 8 cylinders (as God intended), you wouldn’t have the problem of ESMs coming up behind you at all. Problem averted. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/109 "2005-05-23T20:04:00Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > If the truck can do 80+ mph on it, then the road is straight enough that you can see for a good long way. Factually untrue. > [@](#): > > There is no room for you to slide in with the cars on the right? So this entire line of cars to your right consists of tailgaters? Why aren’t you pitting them? > > This seems like a pretty far fetched scenario. A line of tailgaters to your right is so long that you cannot pass, meanwhile a truck doing 80 jumps out from behind a corner and is on your bumper? No room to slide in amongst them with a sufficient safety margin on both sides. To attempt to do so anyway would constitute an “Improper lane change”, if I remember moving violations correctly. Far-fetched or not, it happened. > [@](#): > > I was assuming a 3-4 lane highway. Whatever. Replace it with “right lane”. It doesn’t matter. > > In most cases you should have plenty of time to either slow down or speed up to get over to the right lane before a truck comes up behind you, even if there is a long line of cars with no room to get in. You’re advocating that I should speed up, further breaking the speed limit, just because I’m not passing fast enough for some jackass in a semi? Interesting. Would your opinion change if the speed necessary for me to get ahead of the pack before the semi reached me was over 80MPH, thus constituting Reckless Driving, not mere speeding? In this case, slowing down wouldn’t have put me back at the end of the line fast enough, even if I were obligated to do so under any stretch of the imagination or law. > [@](#): > > Not very well you weren’t. Well, I was doing so legally, safely, and responsibly, and was well within my right to be doing so, so I guess I don’t know what twisted definition of “passing well” you happen to use. The bottom line is : I was using the left lane to pass, I was not “blocking” traffic. I physically could not get over into the right lane without breaking _actual_ traffic regulations, not imaginary ones like this “Manifest Destiny of Driving Jerks” you seem to be promulgating. Semi driver was wrong, I was in the right. Factually, ethically, inarguably. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/110 "2005-05-23T20:09:02Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Factually, ethically, inarguably. Certainly not physically. The semi _always_ wins if there is a collision. Always. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/111 "2005-05-23T20:17:32Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > In never ceases to amaze me how certain people just can’t understand how the highways work. If you are in the left lane and someone is behind you then you are doing something wrong. Move over. In many European countries (England and Germany for sure) it is illegal to block the inner lanes and/or force someone to pass on the right (left for Britain). The inner lanes, especially on a two-lane highway, are passing lanes; you move left to get around the vehicle in front of you, and then clear the lane for other traffic. If a driver is inattentive, a quick flash by the headlights of the trailing car indicates a desire to pass and requires the leading car to make all efforts to clear the lane and/or facilitate passing. Unfortunately, most states/municipalities in the US to not have explicit regulations or laws stating this, but if you are running aside another car and blocking both lanes you are obstructing traffic; if you are doing so deliberately, and especially in a manner that puts someone else at risk you are liable for reckless operation. The polite, curteous, and respectful thing to do is to move out of the way of faster-moving traffic, regardless of what you think about their excess speed, make/model of vehicle, demeanor, or haircut. Or you can “get back at” the person who you perceive to be persecuting you by “being an asshole” and driving too fast or in a vehicle you don’t like. The rest of us, though, who don’t want to participate in your nonsensical dispute involving large pieces of metal and glass thundering down a highway at 100 feet per second would prefer if the two of you would just pull over and go at it _mano e mano_, or flintlocks at twenty paces, or just be direct and compare size of genitalia and or blood testosterone levels. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/112 "2005-05-23T20:25:55Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Certainly not physically. The semi _always_ wins if there is a collision. Always. Actually, no. The semi-driver loses his insurance coverage, probably his license, and almost certainly his job/business. (Fines and citations against truckers are generally more severe than those against passenger vehicle operators, with good reason.) With a few exceptions, these guys are the most level-headed drivers on the road, 'cause they are driving for business, not darting around in traffic or blocking lanes for kicks. A collision is a no-win situation for everybody involved, including the cop who has to write citations and the paramedics who have to scrape people out of their cars. The only winners are the auto-body shops and the lawyers. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/113 "2005-05-23T20:26:09Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > You’re advocating that I should speed up, further breaking the speed limit, just because I’m not passing fast enough for some jackass in a semi? Interesting. No. I said you could either speed up, slow down or move over. I’ll add a fourth option now: stay home in the first place. > [@](#): > > Semi driver was wrong, I was in the right. Factually, ethically, inarguably. We both agree that Semi Driver was wrong. However, him being wrong doesn’t make you right. You were both wrong. Factually, ethically, inarguably. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/114 "2005-05-23T20:35:13Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Actually, no. The semi-driver loses his insurance coverage, probably his license, and almost certainly his job/business. (Fines and citations against truckers are generally more severe than those against passenger vehicle operators, with good reason.) With a few exceptions, these guys are the most level-headed drivers on the road, 'cause they are driving for business, not darting around in traffic or blocking lanes for kicks. > > A collision is a no-win situation for everybody involved, including the cop who has to write citations and the paramedics who have to scrape people out of their cars. The only winners are the auto-body shops and the lawyers. > > Stranger Sorry, the key word there was physically, in this case referring to the laws of physics and the physical results of a meeting of a car/light truck/SUV and a Semi. Judicially and financially he might well lose, but after the fact that’s of small consequence if the driver of the car/light truck/SUV is 100% in the right and a collision occurs, resulting in grevious bodily injury or death to the righteous. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/115 "2005-05-23T20:41:04Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I guess certain people just didn’t see the part about being tailgated too closely to slow down. What? Did she have rotating spikes on her front bumper? How can she _not_ slow down when you take your foot off the gas? I guarantee you that she would have, then you (or whover) could have just merged right and gotten on with your life. I guess for some people, high school never ends. ---
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/116 "2005-05-23T20:44:29Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > In many European countries … a quick flash by the headlights of the trailing car indicates a desire to pass Unfortunately, in the US, people who drive in the left lane tend to think anyone who wants to pass them is a raging asshole. For a lot of these people, there’s simply no way to indicate that you want to pass them that doesn’t send them into an indignant rage. “That asshole flashed his brights at me,” they think. “I’m not moving for that asshole.” My technique is generally to make sure to approach them at a speed that indicates I’m moving faster than they are, then slow down to their speed at a comfortable distance, but just a _little_ closer than I would if I were just following them normally. Conscientious drivers notice this and move. If they don’t move, I give them 30 seconds or so before flashing them the lights. I’m always a little amazed when someone takes this as a personal affront and gives me the finger, slows down to annoy me, or flashes their brights back at me after I pass. ---
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/117 "2005-05-23T21:01:48Z")
Oh, and the idea of being tailgated so close you can’t slow down is just plain absurd. It takes some pretty good concentration to drive 1 foot off someone’s bumper at 80mph, and you can rest assured they’re paying very close attention to any variations in your speed. Just let off the gas slowly, you ninny. Complaining that you’re being tailgated so close you can’t slow down probably means you’re either so paralyzed by fear you shouldn’t be on the road, or you’re overinflating the danger of the situation to justify your stubborn refusal to get out of the way. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/118 "2005-05-23T21:02:21Z")
> [@galt](#): > > Unfortunately, in the US, people who drive in the left lane tend to think anyone who wants to pass them is a raging asshole. For a lot of these people, there’s simply no way to indicate that you want to pass them that doesn’t send them into an indignant rage. “That asshole flashed his brights at me,” they think. “I’m not moving for that asshole.” Yeah, I especially love the “I was already going 10 mph above the speed limit and then this guy comes along going faster, the speeding bastard!” rational for blocking a lane. It’s a little like the thief who complains indignantly that someone else stole from him. If more people would just show a little common sense and leave their egos in the garage we’d see far fewer accidents due to road rage and obnoxious driving behavior. So they soccer mom in the Expedition exploits the situation to get to her Burke Williams massage appointment quicker; that discombobulates your personal lifestyle in what way? She’ll get her due soon enough, especially if the cop who might ticket her isn’t tied up at an accident scene caused by some wanker with a chip on his shoulder and a failure to appreciate the spectacular nature of a collision at 70 mph. Stranger Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/119 "2005-05-23T22:01:41Z")
> [@Knowed Out](#): > > I cast my vote for CynicalGabe and Blue Cool Dude. Gabe was already exceeding the speed limit, and it wasn’t fast enough for ESM. Tailgaters should never be rewarded for their impatience. YOU GO GABE!!! So you don’t want to _reward_ tailgaters, but you do praise aggressive, illegal and obstructive driving that increases the risk level for everyone on the road? Interesting value system you’ve got there. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750/120 "2005-05-23T22:09:14Z")
Did I miss a memo? Do two wrongs actually _make_ a right now? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bwaha-drivers-cooperate-against-tailgater/304750.md?page=7)