# By fundie logic, shouldn't abortion be a GOOD thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-fundie-logic-shouldnt-abortion-be-a-good-thing/593355 "2011-08-19T19:05:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 2\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-fundie-logic-shouldnt-abortion-be-a-good-thing/593355/61 "2011-09-05T23:54:17Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It might be, given the fundie premises. > > Something like 55 million fetuses have been aborted in the U.S. since Roe v. Wade. Given the fundie assumptions, all 55 million went to heaven. If they’d lived, given those same assumptions, let’s say 20 million get saved, and 35 million don’t. (In 40+ years as a Christian, I have rarely seen guesstimates that more than 1/3 of us get saved, from those who look at the world this way.) Among the saved children, that’s going to have to be one hell of an evangelist that we missed out on, to even up the balance! > > But even if it does, the logic is horrific: tens of millions would have had to spend eternity in hell who would otherwise be in heaven, so that others somewhere down the road could be saved and spend eternity in heaven, who would otherwise have spent eternity in hell. > > I guess you have to be a fundie to be comfortable with this sort of divine bargain. Yeah, sure, the bargain may work out, from a net-souls-saved accounting, but that’s one cold, callous, ruthless accounting nonetheless. Sure, God can see more of time and space than I can, by a factor of whatever you care to name. But I can’t see love in this equation, even though I **am** capable of seeing that. > > Sorry, but given the fundie assumptions, it’s still the right thing to do. Send a kid to heaven, and let the future take care of itself. If these are the rules God made, and we can divine them, then God must want us to heed their logic, and in any event, he’s supposedly capable of redeeming our bad choices. If he wants a great evangelist, he’ll raise one up, no matter what we do, right? > > Yes, it sounds ruthless - of _course_ it does. But the problem doesn’t lie wth my proposed course of action; it lies in the ruthlessness and heartlessness of the fundie God that allegedly made these cosmic rules. > > Of course, I don’t believe in the fundie God. That God would be evil, if he existed - which I believe he doesn’t. As I’ve said, the very possibility of such a moral calculus is a wrongness; I don’t believe it exists in the universe of God-that-is, as opposed to God-as-the-fundies-invented-him. One can fix the moral calculus that justifies killing babies by making God more ruthless, by eliminating the age of accountability so that the infant who dies goes to hell, but that’s still not a very loving God, is it? The fundies say the Bible is inerrant, so when the Bible says God is love, that must mean something, and one would hope it means something better than sending dying infants to eternal damnation. > > Maybe the problem’s with the other one. Maybe a God who allegedly created us because he loves us, isn’t going to damn most of us to hell by some arbitrary set of rules. Maybe, as C.S. Lewis suggested in The Great Divorce, God ultimately saves all who would be saved, and only damns those who see him face to face and refuse his love nonetheless. Maybe the eternal fate of others doesn’t rest on us; maybe the whole fundie “suppose you don’t witness to that person, and they get killed in a car wreck tomorrow” logic (and if anyone dares to say this is a strawman, then I can only say they’ve spent no time around fundies and have no idea wtf they’re talking about) that lays an unreasonable, life-distorting load of guilt on anyone who buys into it, has no actual validity in the universe of the God-that-is. > > But a God who damns tens of millions of persons so that some other group of persons (even if it’s a larger group) can be saved? If that’s the best God the fundie axioms can produce, then the problem’s in the axioms. RT, you used the term ‘fundie’ eleven times in a single post. Are you aware this is a pejorative term that is widely considered derogatory? I am curious as to whether you know this. Or whether you care. mmm ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-fundie-logic-shouldnt-abortion-be-a-good-thing/593355/62 "2011-09-06T02:00:08Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > RT, you used the term ‘fundie’ eleven times in a single post. > > Are you aware this is a pejorative term that is widely considered derogatory? > > I am curious as to whether you know this. > > Or whether you care. Not really. ‘Fundie’ is quite simply shorthand for ‘fundamentalist.’ I’m not going to type ‘fundamentalist’ a whole bunch of times; I’m going to go for something shorter, but recognizable as having the same meaning, referring to the same group of people. If ‘fundie’ is inherently derogatory, the problem lies in that which it abbreviates. Certainly, people _use_ it in a derogatory manner, but for the same reason, coupled with a disdain on their part for fundamentalists. If their chosen term for themselves had been two syllables and six letters, instead of five syllables and fourteen letters, then their chosen term would be thrown around in a derogatory manner. If ‘African-American’ or ‘homosexual’ is too much trouble to say or type repeatedly, one can use ‘black’ or ‘gay.’ And an equivalent shorthand for ‘fundamentalist’ would be…? Besides, I’ve rubbed shoulders with fundies for too many years, and have never noticed any antipathy towards the term. Hell, I _was_ one once, though that was a few decades back. I’m convinced that such public upsetness about the use of ‘fundie’ as there has been is ginned-up outrage, like so much conservative outrage is, rather than anything real. I see no reason to take it seriously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-fundie-logic-shouldnt-abortion-be-a-good-thing/593355.md?page=3)