If you as a gun dealer let Fred purchase a gun, are there consequences for you?
Should Bob get a pass in this situation since he is not a dealer?
Is Bob being a responsible gun owner who is respectful of his rights?
All ex-felons shouldn’t be stripped of their 2nd amendment rights .. I don’t know that any of them should lose that right.
Licensed dealers must use the National Instant Criminal Background Check System. They are not liable for mistakes made by NICBC, but if they complete the sale after a NICBC denial, it is a crime.
Supplying a known felon with a firearm is a state matter. Here’s the Louisiana statute, for example.
Someone who commits a felony in which a firearm is used should lose their right to possess a firearm. An embezzler, not so much IMO. A convicted felon, even one who committed a violent crime, should have a means to petition to regain those rights; but I think the bar would have to be set pretty high for ‘non-white collar’ crimes.
Registration is a necessary precondition to confiscation, in case you haven’t been paying attention.
Maybe we could try enforcing the existing laws instead of punishing all gun owners everywhere.
Registering your car is a precondition to confiscation. So?
Legal gun dealers and sellers are the source of criminal weapons, so that’s where we need to severely crack down. It does no good to crack down on the sales of guns if there is no accountability after the sale. “Oops I lost it” or “oops somebody stole it” shouldn’t be penalty free excuses. 100% accountability. We require of soldiers and police, we can require it from citizens claiming to be “responsible.”
When there’s a movement to confiscate cars, it will be wise to oppose registration of them.
Bolding mine.
A bold new field of criminal law: being a victim of a crime is now itself a crime.
It’s illegal for dealers to sell guns to people denied by the NICBC. If you want a federal law making it illegal to supply a known felon with a firearm, that’s one thing, and is reasonable. Punishing someone for having their property stolen is absurd.
Ok, but the hypothetical stated “felon brother”, no ‘ex’ to be seen.
Right. Go commit some crime with your car, ditch it, and when the police show up just say “somebody stole it. I’m the victim here!” They’ll be really nice and say “sorry for bothering you fine citizen, we’ll just be on our way then.”
Ridiculous and ignorant of reality.
I don’t know what you’re trying to say here. Is the analogy to buying a gun legally, then giving it to a felon? Or using a gun in a crime then discarding it? Or what?
What he said.
If I legally own a gun and sell it to someone I know cannot have one, I have committed a crime.
If I legally own a gun and it is stolen from me, I am the victim.
Last I checked, it is the government’s responsibility to prove that a given transaction is illegal. It is not my responsibility to prove my innocence. This principle lies at the very foundation of our legal system.
For dealers, absolutely.
For non-dealers, the 1968 Gun Control Act makes it illegal to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, dealer, collector, or manufacturer) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in the state in which the transferor resides.
So far as I have been able to determine, laws that prohibit an owner of a firearm from supplying it to a known felon in the same state are all at the state level, and I am unaware how many states have such laws. I’d like it to be all 50, but it’s not, because I know that my home state of Kentucky has no such law, per the NRA-ILA.
Theft from individuals is one of the least likely ways criminals obtain their guns. That’s just typical NRA obfuscation. Meanwhile, dealers “lose” or have “stolen” 1,000’s of guns, which is exactly what the NRA wants. Anything that keeps the guns flying off the shelves legally or illegally.
First, cite that guns lost or stolen from dealers is a significant source of guns uses in crimes?
Second, your solution is making it a crime to have your gun stolen?
I’m not going to cite something I didn’t say. If you want to educate yourself, google “how do criminals get their guns?” It’s easy.
But, I’m sure you already have and now you’re probably just reading out of your NRA indoctrination manual or something.
I’m primarily interested in refuting NRA falsehoods and distortions as they come along, so please continue with your next one.
Did you mean straw sales? Because I’m not seeing anything about dealers reporting guns lost or stolen and then selling them to criminals.
That’s right, anyone opposed to making being stolen from a crime has just been indoctrinated by the NRA.
What falsehoods or distortions have I made, exactly?
[QUOTE=levdrakon;16034390**]
Registering your car is a precondition to confiscation. So?**
Legal gun dealers and sellers are the source of criminal weapons, so that’s where we need to severely crack down. It does no good to crack down on the sales of guns if there is no accountability after the sale. “Oops I lost it” or “oops somebody stole it” shouldn’t be penalty free excuses. 100% accountability. We require of soldiers and police, we can require it from citizens claiming to be “responsible.”
[/QUOTE]
Guns and cars are by no means analogous. First, there is no Constitutional protection: “The Right to keep and drive automobiles shall not be infringed.”
I don’t think registering cars is a good idea either, but I’m addressing gun-control, so I’ll leave that alone for now.
Second, you presumably drive your car around on public streets on a regular basis. A gun owner is unlikely to be shooting his gun out on public streets on any regular basis. A gun isn’t “used” for anything until it is discharged, so carrying one isn’t the same as driving your car … it’s closer to leaving it parked.
Here is an informativearticle about the ATF, and the part I’m quoting talks a bit about lost & stolen guns and of course NRA’s staunch opposition to everything.
As for guns being stolen from private homes, I’m less certain what is going on there. Depending on where I read, criminals rarely get guns that way because it takes too long and it’s easier to buy one. Then other sources will say 200-600,000 guns are stolen from people’s homes every year. I think that’s hilarious, and I’m also dubious. Gun owners buy guns for home defense and get 600,000 guns stolen from them every year? So much for home defense.
Or, are these self reported “thefts?” nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
It’s already against federal law to knowingly supply a firearm to a prohibited person, which includes felons.
http://www.justice.gov/usao/ut/psn/documents/guncard.pdf
See number II.
This such bullshit.
First, yes, a large source of guns used in crime are licensed “dealers” that are in fact corrupt and route guns to criminals under the table, then report them as stolen. This is a major problem. Yet for some reason, very few of these “dealers” are ever prosecuted. Why? Fuck if I know. This is why many opponents of additional gun restrictions ask “Shouldn’t we try enforcing the existing laws before we add new ones?”
Second, the NRA does not want guns used in crime. Are you fucking serious? Do you really think the NRA’s goal is really “More gun crime, more violence, more better!” No! For all their faults, the NRA exists to promote legal gun ownership by law-abiding citizens. Gun owners don’t want criminals to have guns, because that removes their advantage! Dealers selling guns illegally is not in anyone’s interest, regardless of whether you are pro or anti gun control.