This falls under the no shit Sherlock school of thought. We get the point, just many of us voters think this point is asinine.
And if there were universal registration of all owners and sales of firearms, it would be hella lot easier for the “Police” to do their job with all due legal procedure of tracking down the gun owner who may have sold on the weapon knowingly when it is illegal. Certainly a lot easier than the situation where I could go locate a firearm no questions asked on the interwebs and pay cold cash anonymously in a McD’s parking lot.
I honestly don’t know what the next step would be, but it will be more until firearm murders came down.
That’s the nature of many things, make the first step, check the results, course change if needed.
What’s acceptable? I don’t know. I do know that 4x the nearest rate in the G-7 G-20 is not acceptable. I’d *prefer *the US of A to be a leader in having the lowest firearm murder rate of the G-20. Like I’ve said before, being on parity with England would be acceptable.
So you are as full of shit as you claim the NRA to be. Thanks for clearing that up. By the way, it doesn’t take NFA regs to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.
Honestly hope that we don’t need to try figure out what the next step would be. Universal registration should help both for a legal chain of evidence for guns used in crimes, and over time non-registered guns should decline. Combine that with giving the ATF or the FBI or someone the funding to enforce all the laws on the books.
What else? Maybe requiring insurance as well. But I think if you have universal registration, then the insurance is redundant. Now if you want to argue that the costs to society from firearms (whether legally owned or previously legally owned that are now underground) should be recouped in part by insurance, that’s a different debate.
I’ve learned on these boards and from researching what is generally attributed to firearm deaths that limiting certain weapons isn’t really effective. In fact, I’d say Feinstein almost seems in cohorts with the NRA for what the result is from her “assault style” attempts are likely to achieve. Taking cheap handguns off the streets would probably provide a much greater ROI if you’re going to ban something. But that’s just a wag rather than anything I’ve researched.
No other gun law has worked in the US, so it’s what we have to work with.
If it seems a bit harsh, maybe you should come up with something that actually works instead of clinging to a jury rigged system designed to hemorrhage guns into the black market. People have noticed.
You might be able to keep your hunting rifles and shotguns unregistered if you give up handguns and whatever we decide is a scary assault weapon. Those have to be registered and traceable by computer in seconds.
Hope we don’t have too many more spectacular shooting disasters in the meantime.
I’ve made my suggestions in about a dozen threads lately. I tire of repeating myself.
Here’s the deal, there are probably close to 400,000,000 guns in private possession now. The overwhelming majority of them are never used in anger or in accident. You want to attack gun violence? Attack the reasons for the violence, not the tools used.
Appreciate the attempt at humor. If you haven’t noticed your “we” hasn’t passed anything significant at the Federal level in about 20 years, which was allowed to expire because it was a turd. About the best that will be passed by your “we” this round will be a diluted version of universal background checks. Word has it that the BG checks will be waived if the buyers own a concealed weapons permit.
So, similar to Obama being responsible for 65 million guns sold since 2009, if this background check legislation is passed, I would wager that the number of concealed weapons permits would rise significantly in the country in order to be exempted from the increased BG checks. Every anti gunner’s dream right?
Yeah, that bothered me because of the incompetence, I’m not sure where the corruption and “arbitrariness” was. This is valid law enforcement strategy if correctly executed. Gun walking without any way of keeping track of the guns is bad execution not corruption.
Tyrannies confiscate guns without a registry. So registries are not a necessary.
Yeah but it can be done without the registry and it HAS been done without the registry. The tyranny you fear isn’t going to be stopped because they don’t have a registry.
That is ONE way (its not a constitutionally protected way but a way that depends on having a political majority at every point in time between now and then). The other way is to have a constitutional right to bear arms, OMG would you look at that, we have one.
For example, we have had a national registry for machine guns for the last 80 years. We know where almost every last machine gun in the United states is located, we know who owns them and we even know when they cross state lines. In the 80 years since we gathered this information, we have not confiscated these weapons, not even once.
On the other hand, registration creates a chain of title so that you know who last legally owned the gun before it was used in a crime. If that person keeps coming up as the last person to own a gun before it is used in a crime, we might have more than an unlucky law-abiding gun owner on our hands.
And what if the suspect doesn’t name names? What does “court” and “trial” have to do with it?
I took a class that covered these topics a long time ago. What does “probable cause” and “reasonable suspicion” have to do with it?
What if you don’t know? You aren’t required to keep this information, you could literally just sell your gun to some guy you just met in a parking lot. Where do “warrants” come into the conversation?
And what does that have to do with a gun registry? Or did you think that a gun registry allowed the police to come pawing through your house?
It almost seems like you are under the impression that forcing you to register is a criminal penalty. One that should require conviction of a crime after due process, I don’t know this for sure but judging by the words and phrases you were throwing around, you seem to think that a registry is a form of criminalization of gun ownership. Its not, no more than car registration is criminalization of car ownership. Its not criminalization, its a bit of a pain in the ass but its not punishment or criminalization.
Yes, I think licensing AND registration would get us there eventually. It would take a decade or so but then again so would a complete ban on firearm sales in the United States (which is why I don’t understand why folks on the left resist this idea). Tell you what, lets try a 20 year licensing and registration period and if it looks like its working, we make it permanent, we lift repeal the NFA and you can buy a surplus M-16 at your local McDonald’s parking lot for a few thousand dollars and your license acts as a CCW nationwide. If it doesn’t work we just let the law lapse.
A bit like your parole officer sort of thing. If the visit is constructive, why not? Nothing wrong with entertaining public officers. They’ll probably keep coming back for my chicken soup and beef stroganoff.
Gun nuts start panic buying guns, especially assault weapons, every time a Democrat gets elected or reelected and every time there is a mass shooting. There’s been lots of both, so gun nutter panic buying is brisk. Also, don’t forget that as long as you or your straw buyer can pass the instant check, you can buy more guns every 24 hours so a lot of those background checks are the same buyers, rather than all new buyers. Overall gun ownership is still trending down, and has been for decades.
Concealed carry permits are almost always harder to get with stricter conditions and background checks than the usual buyer’s instant check, so if people want to run out and go through the extra education, training and background checks because they think they’re getting over on the instant check that would be awesome. Penalties are harsher for CC gun owners, no booze, can’t go to bars or restaurants that serve alchohol, etc.
Concealed Carry forces gun owners to be more responsible gun owners. What’s not to like?
As solosam already noted, most of those restrictions are to prevent de facto registration. If we’re to have registration, it should be via an act of Congress, not a backdoor system carried out by a federal agency.
Cite?
They also, per the NRA-ILA website and this article, support a permitting process and background check for concealed carry.
Again, the NRA does not set budgets for agencies, nor do they determine how much effort state governments put into keeping NICBC data current.
They are just a lobbying organization, not the Illuminati.
This just in: the administration’s own advisers say background checks, assault weapon bans and magazine size limits will do little or nothing to curb gun violence:
As already noted, the restrictions are to ensure criminals, children and violent mental patients can have all the guns they want. No gun laws; guns for everybody.
Do you read your own cites? They usurped the constitution to suit their own end of putting guns into criminal hands with no restrictions. That article says nothing about permitting or bg checks. These are the guys who trample all over the 1st amendment in order to put guns in everyone’s hands in the name of the 2nd.
Are you serious? The NRA slaps riders all over ATF’s funding and you claim they don’t?
Actually, at this point it’s pretty clear that guns are God and the NRA is religion. Time to get that out of government.
First paragraph says it all: NRA uses memo to falsely accuse Obama of something the White House has not proposed and does not support. That’s what they do. Lie to paranoid gun worshipers and spread fear. If they were a Muslim org doing this shit they’d have been rounded up as terrorists by now.
So, any support at all for your claim that the NRA says they are against all rules and regulations?
You are using “NRA”, “Congress” and “state legislatures and agencies” interchangeably here. No, the NRA has no power to pass Congressional budget items or to control whether states bother to update NICBC data.
Then support candidates with gun policies that you agree with. The NRA is engaged in lawful lobbying activity, nothing more.
What an awful country we must live in, rounding up Muslims for publishing opinions.
There has been a recent uptick, but with all the mass shootings and gun debates it’s not that unusual. Assault weapons are really moving which isn’t surprising at all.
Now imagine if everyone who OWNED a gun had to meet those criteria? Sure it would mean that gun owners would have nationwide carry rights but so what?
I agree that a background check alone would be only very mildly effective without registration. I think any of the bans are a retarded waste of political capital. With 3D printers, I can now extend almost any magazine.
Its been like this for decades.
The price of assault weapons are down significantly from their highs. Extended magazines are still very overpriced and thegeneral pricing on firearms is higher than they were in November.
I think the administration could be learning a few things from this information. The increase in gun ownership isn’t coming from Republicans, its coming from Democrats. The number of guns might have increased among Republican gun owners but the increase in households with guns are largely coming form the Democrat side.
