# By MLB rules, what penalty for the pitcher never throwing to home plate? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 10, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594 "2016-09-10T23:54:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/1 "2016-09-10T23:54:35Z")
My 12 year old son asked me an interesting question about the rules of MLB that I don’t know the answers to… While watching a pitcher with a very slow, deliberate pitching delivery, my son asked me if there was some kind of time window for the pitcher to make a pitch to the plate. I said yes, he had to throw the ball within 20 or 30 seconds (I’ve since looked it up - it’s 20 seconds) or the batter gets an automatic “ball”. Then the runner reached first base, and the pitcher spent some time throwing to first base to keep the runner close. He then asked me if there was a limit to how many times the pitcher could do this. As far as I know, there isn’t. Well, he asked, what if he NEVER throws home? Just takes 20 seconds and then throws to first, and repeat? I wondered why anybody would want to do this. He came up with a manager intentionally trying to delay the game for whatever reason - say, the home team was ahead and it was beginning to rain and he was trying to force a rain-shortened official game, or (I thought of this one) perhaps they wanted to ice the opposing pitcher. For example, imagine it’s a do-or-die game and you’re facing Clayton Kershaw on a day when he’s untouchable, your pitcher has kept it a 0-0 scoreless tie but Kershaw’s only thrown 35 pitches through 5 innings and your guy had to use 95 pitches to keep pace, plus you already pinch hit for him and are in the bullpen. Boy it’d sure be nice to knock Kershaw out of the game… Hey, why not leave the pinch hitter in to pitch, intentionally walk the first batter, then have him spend, oh, 45-60 minutes throwing to first base, before substituting with a real pitcher from the bullpen? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/2 "2016-09-11T00:15:14Z")
I looked up intentional delay but all I could find is the following. “MLB rule 8.04 requires that, “when the bases are unoccupied, the pitcher shall deliver the ball to the batter within 12 seconds after he receives the ball. Each time the pitcher delays the game by violating this rule, the umpire shall call “Ball”. The 12-second timing starts when the pitcher is in possession of the ball and the batter is in the box, alert to the pitcher. The timing stops when the pitcher releases the ball.” This rule, however, is virtually ignored completely.” For your question, the team at bat may be able to offer a protest, but I dunno. There could be some obscure reference to an official rule that the Ump could call. I’ve heard that the rule book Umps use is biblical and encyclopedic (probably written by lawyers) that does not resemble but does clarify/point to, the The Official Baseball Rules. Possibly someone on this board could point us to this reference. Anyway, good question. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/3 "2016-09-11T00:16:41Z")
I’m just glad Tommy Lasorda has already retired. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/4 "2016-09-11T01:04:11Z")
The guy on first won’t even lead off anymore, he’ll just dig in his toes waiting for the ball to get away from the first baseman. If that doesn’t happen before long the crowd starts booing and throwing things and the umps pull baseball’s Don’t be a Jerk rule and eject the manager. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/5 "2016-09-11T01:16:07Z")
In order of severity: 1. Call a ball. 2. Eject the pitcher. 3. Eject the manager. 4. Order the game forfeited. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/6 "2016-09-11T01:27:29Z")
The umpires can forfeit a game if a team “employs tactics palpably designed to delay or shorten the game” (rule 4.15(b)). Other than that, there really isn’t anything that can be done; you can’t set a limit on how many times a pitcher can throw to a base before having to pitch, as this gives the runners an advantage, and you can’t force the runners to stay on their bases before enforcing any limit, as this gives the pitcher an advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/7 "2016-09-11T07:43:26Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > The umpires can forfeit a game if a team “employs tactics palpably designed to delay or shorten the game” (rule 4.15(b)). Other than that, there really isn’t anything that can be done; you can’t set a limit on how many times a pitcher can throw to a base before having to pitch, as this gives the runners an advantage, and you can’t force the runners to stay on their bases before enforcing any limit, as this gives the pitcher an advantage. That Don Guy nailed it. Rule 4.15 A game may be forfeited to the opposing team when a team— (b) Employs tactics palpably designed to delay or shorten the game; ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/8 "2016-09-11T13:42:01Z")
Huh, I never heard of the “delay of game forfeiture” rule. A handy subjective call for the umpires. As with any subjective call, though, context is everything… Does a manager calling for “excessive” pitching changes in one half-inning qualify? I have seen as many as four - combining something like that, with lots of throws to first, could have a similar effect. I guess having bench position players come in to waste time on the mound would be egregious. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/9 "2016-09-11T15:05:22Z")
I found this interesting: > [@](#): > > Only five forfeits have occurred in the past 50 years: > > September 30, 1971 – The Washington Senators final game > One of the most inept, yet beloved, franchises in the history of baseball, Senators owner Bob Short decided to move the team from Washington, D.C. out west where they would become the Texas Rangers. The Senators were beating the New York Yankees 7-5 with two outs in the top of the 9th, one out away from scoring a bittersweet victory against their division rival. Suddenly several hundred people from a noisy and wild crowd of 14,460 stormed the field and began running the bases and digging up the grass and dirt. After the police were unable to quickly restore order and first base was stolen, the umpire declared that the Senators had forfeited the game. The lights were shut off and the police guarded home plate as the fans left RFK Stadium. Three men were arrested for disorderly conduct. > > June 4, 1974 – 10-cent beer night in Cleveland > In an attempt to boost their woeful attendance, the Cleveland Indians held a special promotion: ten ounces of Stroh’s beer for ten cents. A crowd of 25,134 (three times the normal amount) showed up to see the Indians play the Texas Rangers, enticed by cheap beer. Problems started early as the fans started lighting off fireworks in the stands during the first inning. In the second inning, a large woman jumped into the Indians’ on-deck circle and lifted her shirt; in the fourth, a naked man slid into second base; in the fifth, a father-and-son team leapt into the infield and mooned the crowd. From the seventh inning onward, the bleachers slowly emptied as people climbed down into right field. With the game tied in the bottom of the ninth, the Cleveland fans began to pelt the field with golf balls, rocks and batteries, and someone stole Rangers rightfielder Jeff Burroughs’ glove. When Burroughs ran into the stands to get it back, the crowd stormed the field. Rangers manager Billy Martin quickly grabbed a bat and ran into the crowd on a rescue mission to save Burroughs. Someone took a metal chair to Texas pitcher Tom Hilgendorf’s skull. Finally, when umpire Nestor Chylak was hit with a chair, he declared a forfeit. Only nine people were arrested. > > September 15, 1977 – Earl Weaver pulls his team off the field > The Baltimore Orioles were behind 4 - 0 in the bottom of the fifth inning when manager Earl Weaver asked umpire Marty Springstead to have a tarpaulin that was covering the Toronto Blue Jays bullpen area removed. The game was being played in a light rain and the Blue Jays bullpen mound was covered by a small tarp that was held down with several large bricks. Weaver argued that his left fielder could be injured if he ran into the bricks while chasing a foul ball. When the umpire refused to order the Blue Jays to move the tarp, Weaver ordered the Orioles off the field, forcing the umpire to declare a forfeit. > > July 12, 1979 – Disco Demolition Night > In one of the late great Bill Veeck’s worst promotions, any fan who showed up to the game that day with a disco record would be allowed in for only 98 cents. Over 50,000 people showed up, with an extra 15,000 more outside trying to get in. Between the two games of a Chicago White Sox – Detroit Tigers doubleheader, local radio DJ Steve Dahl would blow up a huge stack of disco records in the middle of the outfield. The crowd was merely unruly during the first game, chanting “Disco sucks!” and throwing their records onto the field like Frisbees. Dahl’s explosion of the records set the crowd off and hundreds rushed onto the field. The pitching rubber was stolen and a huge bonfire was started in centerfield. It took almost a half hour for the riot police to show up and thirty-seven people were arrested. Finally, umpire Rich Phillips declared the game a forfeit. > > August 10, 1995 – Ball Day at Dodger Stadium > The Los Angeles Dodgers gave out thousands of souvenir balls for their game against the St. Louis Cardinals. The Cardinals were up 2-1 in the bottom of the 9th when Dodger Eric Karros is ejected by the plate umpire Bob Davidson for arguing a strikeout call. The next batter, Raul Mondesi, is also ejected for the same thing. Dodger manager Tommy Lasorda runs out to argue with the umpire himself, and he is also ejected. With that, the fans bombard the field with hundreds of baseballs. The grounds crew clears the field and the Cardinals go back out to finish the inning. The fans begin throwing the balls again, and Davidson declares a forfeit. > > Stories of every baseball forfeit are available at [Forfeits](http://www.retrosheet.org/forfeits.htm) Quoted from [Major League Baseball forfeits - Everything2.com](http://everything2.com/title/Major+League+Baseball+forfeits) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/10 "2016-09-11T16:16:01Z")
I think **Tripolar** also has it right. Once the runner obviously doesn’t take any sort of lead, in fact planting himself on first, any “pick-off” move is obvious “delay of game.” One gets you a warning, two gets people ejected, three gets the other team a forfeit. And probably gets you a healthy fine from MLB. eta: And probably gets your guys jumped on later for fucking up Kershaw’s perfect game. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/11 "2016-09-11T19:04:04Z")
Sort of off topic, but related; George Plimpton wrote a short book called \*One for the Record \*about Henry Aaron’s 715th home run. In it he tells a story about the last day of the 1973 season, when Aaron had reached 713 homers. The Braves were playing Houston in a meaningless game, and the Houston pitcher got hurt. He was replaced by Don Wilson, who did not wish to face Aaron and possibly give up his historic 714th homer. Of course, you are allowed more than the standard number of warmup pitches when you replace a pitcher who is injured, and --according to Plimpton–Wilson toyed with the idea of never admitting to being ready. “Just one more,” he’d say to the umpire, “just one more,” and at some point some kind of statute of limitations might run out, he reasoned, and the game would end without him ever having to face Aaron. He didn’t, of course, and Aaron didn’t get that Ruth-tying homer till the next season. And I believe the rule is not “as many as you want” but “as many as the umpire thinks you need.” But it’s a good story. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/12 "2016-09-12T15:32:22Z")
> [@](#): > > September 30, 1971 – The Washington Senators final game > One of the most inept, yet beloved, franchises in the history of baseball, Senators owner Bob Short decided to move the team from Washington, D.C. out west where they would become the Texas Rangers. The Senators were beating the New York Yankees 7-5 with two outs in the top of the 9th, one out away from scoring a bittersweet victory against their division rival. Suddenly several hundred people from a noisy and wild crowd of 14,460 stormed the field and began running the bases and digging up the grass and dirt. After the police were unable to quickly restore order and **first base was stolen** , the umpire declared that the Senators had forfeited the game. The lights were shut off and the police guarded home plate as the fans left RFK Stadium. Three men were arrested for disorderly conduct. You don’t see that often! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/13 "2016-09-12T16:11:18Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > Huh, I never heard of the “delay of game forfeiture” rule. A handy subjective call for the umpires. As with any subjective call, though, context is everything… Does a manager calling for “excessive” pitching changes in one half-inning qualify? I have seen as many as four - combining something like that, with lots of throws to first, could have a similar effect. If the manager is bringing in new pitchers, that is his strategic choice. The rule about deliberately delaying the game was, remember, written when not all ballparks had lights, and delaying the game was a natural stratagem arising from a team being in a position to force the early conclusion of a game due to darkness. As umpires have plenipotentiary powers to make any ruling necessary to ensure the game is played in a sportsmanlike fashion, the scenario is easily fixed; if a guy is legitimately screwing around you eject him, and if it looks like it’s a team thing you inform the manager - or the acting manager - if you already tossed the usual one - “get this underway or you forfeit.” Because there is really no way to gamesmanship your way out of the umpire’s power to tell you to stop screwing around, it essentially never happens, so the few forfeits that do happen are field conditions or fans getting drunk and going nuts. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/14 "2016-09-12T18:24:03Z")
Or Earl Weaver. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/15 "2016-09-12T19:45:51Z")
But there you go; Weaver felt the field at Exhibition Stadium was dangerous. He was probably right, the place was a friggin’ dump. Aside from the Dodger Stadium fiasco, it is interesting to note the fan-based forfeits were all in an era known for baseball stadiums being absolutely full of drunk and disorderly fans. I don’t know how much the increase in MLB attendance in the 80s and 90s can be attributed to the anti-drunkenness measures MLB took, but I bet it’s one of the reasons. MLB games are far more fan and family-friendly today than they used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/16 "2016-09-12T20:42:21Z")
How much leeway does an umpire have in calling balls? Could he start calling those throws to first base as if they were attempted pitches? That would force the pitcher to start throwing real pitches or walk the batter. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-mlb-rules-what-penalty-for-the-pitcher-never-throwing-to-home-plate/765594/17 "2016-09-13T01:27:19Z")
That story about the 1974 10-cent Beer Night game was hilarious yet disturbing. Fans were steadily climbing onto the field, running into the infield, grabbing players’ equipment, hitting players with chairs (did they bring in folding chairs somehow, or tear up the stadium seating?!), … But only when the umpire was hit with a chair in the ninth inning did he finally say, that’s it, this game is OVER?