# By request-Blue John, c'mere for a minute **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266 "2003-02-28T23:36:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/81 "2003-03-05T17:33:43Z")
I thought **Malacandra** was only using an example myself **Biggirl**. America has, I believe, never lost 10% of it’s population in any war…during it’s existance. His point about farming, I can understand. > [@](#): > > Hence and QED, from a biological standpoint, women ceased to be a precious resource round about the time we crack puerperal fever and the infant mortality rate: We no longer need every available woman married and breeding like crazy in order to keep the birth rate up. If you read this correctly, **Malacandra** is stating that the argument BJ is using (about women are solely needed to have kids) is wrong. The last 3 generations of my family have had less and less kids (actually, 4, 3 and 2 kids from great grandparents down to my parents). and all of them survived (well, can’t be 100% sure for my great grandparents). BJ has to be trolling. To say that women are no longer interested in child rearing because of liberation is BS. I don’t want kids but my SO does…so how does that fit into your world BJ? I don’t see a decline in population at all (more like a fairly uncontrollable over-population problem). I plan on having 1 kid (or no kids if I can help it). ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/82 "2003-03-05T18:13:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Malacandra \* > \*\*A word in your shell-like ear: Getting me to rise to a bait I don’t choose to rise to is about as easy as getting me to shut up when I’ve decided I’m going to have my say. Now scuttle off back to Maturity 101, and don’t be late handing in your homework. \*\* I’m not trying to get a rise out of you. I want you to explain your “pussification” comment. Come on, do it. Where’s the maturity of tossing out a loaded phrase like that then slinking back to your cave and tossing out the old “some of my best friends” canard. Put up or shut up. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Green\_Feather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e7dd6/32.png) [@The\_Green\_Feather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Green_Feather)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/83 "2003-03-05T21:23:10Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by The Green Feather_ > \*\*That doesn’t even make stupid sense. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Super Gnat \* > \*\ ***TGF** , can I use that as a sig line? \*\* Of course, I would be flattered. Please be sure you show it refering to **Blue John**. Unfortunately, I find myself using that phrase all too often. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/84 "2003-03-06T00:10:31Z")
Thanks! I likes it. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/85 "2003-03-06T11:10:16Z")
I’m sorry you feel that way, **Homebrew**. When I feel wound up enough to come lumbering into the Pit with a real mouthful to say, I’ll do so. At the moment I don’t really feel cross enough for a good old spew. Any snivels I have about the evils that feminism has wrought will have to wait for now. Canard? Well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck… It’s a rather long way from saying “A bigot may very well claim that some of his best friends are \<_fill in the blanks_\>” to proving that “Anyone who claims that some of his best friends are \<_fill in the blanks_\> only shows himself to be a bigot” , wouldn’t you say? It’s not even the case that I’m claiming that some of my best friends _are_ women - rather that I do have a personal history of being a very good friend _to_ women. In addition to the soggy shoulder, open ear and non-judgmental advice cited above, I’ll add “nursing the woman who’d just dumped me through the severe burns she then gave herself by setting light to her car with herself inside it” to the list, and leave you to prove me a misogynist as best you can on the strength of a grumpy use of the word “pussification”. **Biggirl** , I already explained about that. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised to see you still harping on about it. I’ve seen your razor-sharp intellect cutting to the core of an argument elsewhere. I’m not going to bother explaining again, since you evidently either didn’t read or didn’t understand my previous explanation. Be off with you. **badmana** , thanks. What actually got me into this thread, though, wasn’t so much disagreeing with _BlueJohn_’s claim that women are good for nothing but breeding - In any case, I didn’t understand him to be saying that, so much as that childbirth etc is the only thing women _can_ do that men _can’t_, and that for all other purposes, men can do things better than women can. ( **Note** : Saying that this is what I understand by what BJ said is not the same as agreeing with him.) He therefore reasons if we’re to regard either sex as cannon-fodder, it might as well be women, leaving men to do the essential work of keeping society going. At this point he got sat on by someone asserting that, since one man and a hundred women could produce a hundred babies in the time it would take one woman and a hundred men to produce one, we had to regard women’s lives as utterly sacrosanct - And that was where I chimed in explaining what was wrong with this argument. Btw, _is_ BJ so very far from the truth when he attributes the falling birthrate to women’s liberation? ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/86 "2003-03-06T15:15:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Btw, is BJ so very far from the truth when he attributes the falling birthrate to women’s liberation? I don’t see why anyone would even care. It’s not like we’re in danger of running out of kids. As you said, because almost every kid survives birth, the sheer amount of kids being born might be reduced, but the total kids that make it to adulthood is enough to keep things going. I doubt it’s just one reason why women (and men) choose not to have kids. I can’t afford them so I don’t want any. I make a pretty decent wage but because of taxes (not just income tax but taxes in general) I’m scratching by with only a new car! That might sound petty but I commute 45 mins each way for work and throwing in gas and insurance (being young sucks) half of my income in related to my car. I disagree that women are soulless (if that was the term used here) or sub-human. I didn’t even realize this kind of thinking still existed. I know, **Malacandra,** you didn’t call women that, so I’m wondering why you’re getting jumped. FTR I’m somewhat pro-womens-lib. I figure women in charge can’t be as bad as the men we’ve had in charge. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/87 "2003-03-06T15:57:46Z")
Too stupid to live. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/88 "2003-03-06T16:31:03Z")
[Malacandra gets his own thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=167699) ---
**Author:** ![d\_redguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@d\_redguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d_redguy)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/89 "2003-03-06T17:56:45Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by Malacandra_: > we had to regard women’s lives as utterly sacrosanct - Careful there, **Mal** , that was dangerously close to putting words in my mouth…that having been said, on to the new thread! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/90 "2003-03-06T22:22:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by d\_redguy \* > \*\*Careful there, Mal, that was dangerously close to putting words in my mouth…that having been said, on to the new thread! \*\* Apologies. One of my pet hates is having words put in my mouth, and I ought to know better. Ah, yes, the new thread. This is one of these rites of passage, I guess. I hope I haven’t done too badly. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@Blue\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_John)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/91 "2003-03-08T07:19:14Z")
**Malacandra** has understood my argument! He’s also right that calling women “leeches on society”, while accurate, wasn’t tactful. He is very intelligent. I never said women are no longer interested in childbearing, **badmama**. A lot of factors are lowering the birthrate, including less women being interested in children. Some men decide not to impregnate anyone, women try to build careers which consumes crucial periods of fertility in their lives marry later and risk their ability to give birth, that sort of thing. Feminist groups have advocated educating middle-eastern women to avoid over-population because women being “educated”, “liberated” and whatever else causes a sharp decline in the birth-rate. Some countries are already [feeling the pinch](http://www.townhall.com/columnists/patbuchanan/pb20030226.shtml), population-wise. I don’t think women are soulless either, they’re still human after all. ---
**Author:** ![d\_redguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@d\_redguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d_redguy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/92 "2003-03-08T07:49:44Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by Malacandra:_ > Mind you, BJ’s “leeches on society” line wasn’t calculated to win much sympathy. But all I was actually agreeing with him on was the observation that, in modern society and for the reasons I’ve stated above, women are just as “expendable” as men are… if we must actually think of human beings as “expendable” in the first place. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by Blue John:_ > He’s also right that calling women “leeches on society”, **while accurate** , wasn’t tactful. Emphasis mine. **Blue John** , you are delusional if you think that those two statements above are equal. There was not a value judgement in **Mal’s** statement, which is the one _it seems_ you are referring to. Do you see the sentence, “I think Blue John’s statement that women are leeches on society is accurate.” in the quoted text by **Malacandra**? No. You don’t. Taking people out of context to make it seem like they agree with your genius doesn’t fly too well. I suppose next you are going to tell me about all the email you are receiving from members of this board whom agree with you, but are afraid to post their beliefs.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@Blue\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_John)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/93 "2003-03-09T03:31:02Z")
**d\_redguy** , don’t put words in my mouth. I never meant to imply that “ **Mal** ” thought my statement was accurate, just that I think it is accurate and that he was right that it was tactless. ---
**Author:** ![FranticMad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c68b51/32.png) [@FranticMad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FranticMad)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/94 "2003-03-09T03:55:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blue John \* > [http://www.townhall.com/columnists/](http://www.townhall.com/columnists/) **patbuchanan** /pb20030226.shtml > I don’t think women are soulless either, they’re still human after all. Pat Buchanan. Now there’s an expert on sexuality for ya. Women are human?!?!?! Wow, you are one **controversial** guy, arentcha? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/95 "2003-03-09T04:04:04Z")
Personally, I think **Blue John** is a leech on society. If you’re going to state that women are leeches on society, then that is not merely “tactless.” It’s damn ignorant and **misogynist**. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/96 "2003-03-09T04:45:13Z")
[Oh boy](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3103956#post3100626) Just keep digging yourself deeper, **Blue John**. ---
**Author:** ![d\_redguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@d\_redguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d_redguy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/97 "2003-03-09T04:47:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blue John \* > \*\ ***d\_redguy** , don’t put words in my mouth. I never meant to imply that “ **Mal** ” thought my statement was accurate, just that I think it is accurate and that he was right that it was tactless. \*\* I quoted directly thankyewverymuch. ---
**Author:** ![hyperjes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@hyperjes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hyperjes)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/98 "2003-03-09T08:09:35Z")
**Blue John** , you make me very angry. Not that you care. Which is fine. That does not, however, change the fact that you **PISS ME OFF.** I cannot imagine what could have happened to you to make you think the way that you do. Whatever it was, you sincerely need to get over it. Do you love your mother at all? I wonder how she feels, or would feel, about your opinion of women? At any rate, all of your “facts and figures” are only a loosely-tied group of mis-lead thoughts, which you use to support your sadly misguided veiws of the female population. It does not matter what you think, who you quote, what kind of statistics you throw out or where you draw your conclusions from. YOUR WAY OF THINKING IS WRONG. (On the subject of women. I have no idea what you think about anything else.) I wonder, is it hard to be you? Does it hurt your concience at all to go about in the world believing that a good part of the population is less-than-equal to you? Or does it help bolster what must be your already-sagging self-esteem? Now that I think about it, I don’t hate you anymore. I pity you. You must be a very lonely man. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@Blue\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_John)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/99 "2003-03-10T07:14:58Z")
**FranticMad** , Pat Buchanan was just presenting the facts. I didn’t he’s an expert on sexuality or anything else. I thought I should say women are human because from what I had written earlier people might think I thought otherwise. **Guinastasia** , calling women leeches on society isn’t ignorant or misogynist. It is true. Opposing this is ignorant. Misogyny is a statement about my emotional state, that I hate women, which is untrue. You can never know my emotional state except by believing me when I say “I don’t hate women”. Continue believing whatever you want for no reason, though. Like in the rape thread you will stand by your position no matter how blind to the facts you must make yourself and no matter how dishonest you must be. How did I did myself in deeper in that post? I merely said rape is rarely ignored, rape is bad, removal of the proper limitations on the justice system is bad, political organisations work to further their agendas and not every accusation of criminality is necessarily true. All reasonable points. **d\_redguy** , I didn’t express myself well, this misunderstanding is my fault, not yours. **hyperjes** , don’t get worked up. Relax. Nothing happened to me to make me think like this, I’m just looking at the facts as I see them. What have I possibly said that could be objectionable, besides comparing women to children? That is philosophy, the rest is fact. The incidence of false allegations of rape is fact, for example. Only my opinion on the mental state of women is truely debateable. My feelings for my mother are no different from any other woman. I don’t consider blood to be thicker than water, figurateively speaking. My “facts and figures” are verifiable fact, only my conclusions can be questioned. As always, statistics speak for themselves. My “way of thinking” is immaterial, the facts are the facts. Let me ask you, if you don’t care what evidence I have to back me up or where my ideas come from, what makes you so sure I am wrong? Don’t you think this staggering disregard for facts in stead of nebulous arguments about my “way of thinking” proves my point? Women are irrational. Unreasonable, illogical. You don’t give a toss for the truth. It’s very easy being me, I’m very self-righteous. My concience is completely clear on everything. I love women, I merely wish to educate. If they choose to ignore what I say it is they who will be injured, not me. Their own mental state is the problem. I just wish they would come around. Realise the truth of their existence, you see? My self esteem is in the best of health. If anything I feel too good about myself. > [@](#): > > From _Against Jovinianus_ by St. Jerome: > **A wise man can never be alone. He has with him the good men of all time, and turns his mind freely wherever he chooses. What is inaccessible to him in person he can embrace in thought. And, if men are scarce, he converses with God. He is never less alone than when alone.** > [@](#): > > From _Sex & Character_ by Otto Weininger: > \*\*In short, the woman makes it a criterion of manliness that the man should be superior to herself mentally, that she should be influenced and dominated by the man; and this in itself is enough to ridicule all ideas of sexual equality. > > The male lives consciously, the female lives unconsciously. This is certainly the necessary conclusion for the extreme cases. The woman receives her consciousness from the man; the function to bring into consciousness what was outside it is a sexual function of the typical man with regard to the typical woman, and is a necessary part of his ideal completeness.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266/100 "2003-03-10T09:20:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blue John \* > **Guinastasia** , calling women leeches on society isn’t ignorant or misogynist. It is true. Opposing this is ignorant. You are the ignorant one. Sad, ignorant and fucked up. I don’t think I’ve ever wished this of anyone before, even people whose opinions I violently disagree with, but I personally wish you would leave these boards. That’s obviously not a request - I’m not a moderator - I just look forward to the day that these boards are free of you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-request-blue-john-cmere-for-a-minute/158266.md?page=6)