# By the time you enter kindergarten, you should be able to... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 25, 2005, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552 "2005-08-25T13:02:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/1 "2005-08-25T13:02:28Z")
Our little one WILL be entering kindergarten in a year. I’m curious how you would complete the sentence in the thread title. Specifically I’m curious in terms of reading/pre reading/alphabet skills, but feel free to add other opinions 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/2 "2005-08-25T13:24:06Z")
You should know your basic colors, your birthday, your first and last name, your mom and dad’s names, how to spell your first name, how to write your first name somewhat legibly in uppercase letters, the alphabet, how to recognize numbers 1 - 10 when written, your town and state, and how to use blunt scissors. You should know not to pick your nose in front of people and to close the bathroom door and to flush the toilet and wash your hands after using the bathroom. Oh, and how to wipe after using the toilet. You should be able to open your own milk carton or bottle. ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/3 "2005-08-25T13:24:12Z")
Should recognize the letters of the alphabet, and be able to write (even if poorly) all 26, upper and lowercase. Should recognize/write the numbers, and be able to count pretty high. Should be able to read simple books. ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/4 "2005-08-25T13:25:21Z")
> [@chaoticdonkey](#): > > Should be able to read simple books. It’s not a big deal if you can’t do this one, but, with most kids attending some kind of preschool these days it’s fairly common. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/5 "2005-08-25T13:46:46Z")
You should be able to open your own damn can of spinach on Saturday morning without waking up mama so you can play Popeye. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/6 "2005-08-25T13:51:10Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > You should be able to open your own damn can of spinach on Saturday morning without waking up mama so you can play Popeye. Oh, wait. Who’s “Popeye”??? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/7 "2005-08-25T13:53:27Z")
be able to listen to directions and trust adults other than your own parents/caregivers. You should be able to sit on a chair, take turns, follow directions. Basic manners are vital-please and thank you and wait your turn. You should be able to be quiet for full minutes at a time. Knowing your name, parent’s names should also be a given. Everything else will come (most likely). ---
**Author:** ![davmilasav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@davmilasav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davmilasav)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/8 "2005-08-25T13:55:02Z")
I remember when I was in kg (1974) we had a star chart of things we knew or learned to do that year. It included being able to button your own shirt, tie your shoes, and recite your address and phone number. It took me forever to learn to tie my own shoes but oh, the feeling of accomplishment! 😃 We weren’t yet expected to tell time; that was for first graders. They had worksheets. Of course, this was old fashioned time telling, with the big hand and little hand. None of those newfangled digital clocks for us! ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/9 "2005-08-25T14:01:16Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Knowing your name, parent’s names should also be a given. I totally remember, 37 years ago, meeting classmates in kindergarten who thought that their parents’ names were Mommy and Daddy. Obviously, it stuck with me. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/10 "2005-08-25T14:02:22Z")
But seriously, I’d make sure BeagleKid knows better than to talk to strangers, take rides, etc… ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/11 "2005-08-25T15:13:49Z")
> [@chaoticdonkey](#): > > Should recognize the letters of the alphabet, and be able to write (even if poorly) all 26, upper and lowercase. > > Should recognize/write the numbers, and be able to count pretty high. > > Should be able to read simple books. I have to disagree on these. Your average 4 to 5 year old is NOT able to read yet. This has nothing to do with pre-school training; the brain is just not able at that time to process the concept of marks on a page equalling words. Also the hands of many children of that age, especially boys, have not yet matured to the point where they are able to write letters and numbers. Expecting children to do things their brains and bodies are not yet ready for is asking for frustration, and can be a sure way to develop a negative association between reading and anxiety. Sort of like expecting a 6-month-old to be potty trained. Sure, many kindergarteners you see will be able to read a bit, count, etc., but those are \*not \* the norm, IMHO. An excellent kindergarten teacher in my town once told me that her goal was to teach children the basics: cooperation, behavior, courtesy, paying attention, and so on. She said that she fully expected to have some children start her class already reading fluently, and others not having the slightest idea what a letter or number was, and to help each one to be more advanced at the end of the year. (Our population is quite diverse and heterogeneous, ranging from very low income housing projects to some fairly ritzy semi-rural McMansions and everything in between.) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/12 "2005-08-25T16:15:43Z")
I couldn’t tie my shoes, and it made me upset whenever we had to do something that required taking off the shoes, because I’d have to ask for help to tie them up again. The worst part is this was 9th grade. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/13 "2005-08-25T16:21:55Z")
> [@davmilasav](#): > > I remember when I was in kg (1974) we had a star chart of things we knew or learned to do that year. It included being able to button your own shirt, tie your shoes, and recite your address and phone number. It took me forever to learn to tie my own shoes but oh, the feeling of accomplishment! 😃 My “genius” second grader still can’t tie his own damn shoes. Maybe by the end of second grade. He did learn to ride a bike recently, so he’s making some progress. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/14 "2005-08-25T16:26:15Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I couldn’t tie my shoes, and it made me upset whenever we had to do something that required taking off the shoes, because I’d have to ask for help to tie them up again. I couldn’t tie my shoes until I was almost eight. (And don’t even ask me how long it was before I could cut a steak without the distinct possibility of injury.) Both of my parents are right-handed, and I am not. I am so not-right-handed that it’s almost a disability. It got no better when I went to kindergarten and the teacher told all of us “The hand you _write_ with is your _right_ hand!” I’m almost thirty years old, and I still have to think for several seconds about which is right and which is left. On the other hand, I could read by the time I was four. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/15 "2005-08-25T16:31:16Z")
Should be potty trained. Should be able to administer emergency cootie shots. Should be able to finish Grand Theft Auto San Andreas. (on easy setting) ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/16 "2005-08-25T16:36:27Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Should be able to administer emergency cootie shots. Are we talkin’ just the “circle circle dot dot” variety? Because I’ve heard the AMA has discovered that they’re not an adequate deterrent for _all_ forms of cooties. If you’re a little boy minding his own business and a girl touches you, then you’re golden. But if there is any kiss-on-the-cheek exposure, you’re going to need a Full Cootie Bubble. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/17 "2005-08-25T16:38:17Z")
> [@Caricci](#): > > You should know your basic colors, your birthday, your first and last name, your mom and dad’s names, how to spell your first name, how to write your first name somewhat legibly in uppercase letters, the alphabet, how to recognize numbers 1 - 10 when written, your town and state, and how to use blunt scissors. You should know not to pick your nose in front of people and to close the bathroom door and to flush the toilet and wash your hands after using the bathroom. Oh, and how to wipe after using the toilet. You should be able to open your own milk carton or bottle. All of this plus knowing your address and/or phone number, and the ability to read at See-Spot-Run level. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/18 "2005-08-25T16:40:14Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > I have to disagree on these. Your average 4 to 5 year old is NOT able to read yet. This has nothing to do with pre-school training; the brain is just not able at that time to process the concept of marks on a page equalling words. And I have to disagree with _you_. My mother taught me how to read before I started kindergarten, and I made sure I read to the Ivy kidlets so they had a jump on reading by the time they started school. I don’t know if you consider that average, but I’ve found if a parent takes the time to read to their child, encourage reading and not playing the Gameboy, most 4-5 year olds _can_ learn to read simple words and understand concepts by the time they start kindergarten. Sadly, many parents will not take the time. I think, at minimum, being able to recognize colors, shapes, numbers and letters is critical. They must understand learning to stand in line and waiting their turn. They must understand there is a proper time to do some things and not others. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/19 "2005-08-25T16:53:27Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > And I have to disagree with _you_. My mother taught me how to read before I started kindergarten, and I made sure I read to the Ivy kidlets so they had a jump on reading by the time they started school. I don’t know if you consider that average, but I’ve found if a parent takes the time to read to their child, encourage reading and not playing the Gameboy, most 4-5 year olds _can_ learn to read simple words and understand concepts by the time they start kindergarten. Sadly, many parents will not take the time. > > I think, at minimum, being able to recognize colors, shapes, numbers and letters is critical. They must understand learning to stand in line and waiting their turn. They must understand there is a proper time to do some things and not others. I and my two daughters also read fluently before the age of 4. However we, you and your kidlets are well above average! It’s true that many parents don’t read to their children as you, my parents and I did. However, my older sister was raised in the same environment as I, achieved straight A’s in high school, and did not read until first grade. Back in my day it was extremely unusual for a first grader to know how to read; they did teach the alphabet in kindergarten. I think it’s important to distinguish between our own experience and observation and the average child; as I said before, you and I and our children are probably far outside the norm. My daughters and I test in the top 2% on standard IQ tests, for what it’s worth. You and I probably don’t see as many of the truly average and below average child. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552/20 "2005-08-25T16:55:37Z")
> [@Draelin](#): > > I couldn’t tie my shoes until I was almost eight. (And don’t even ask me how long it was before I could cut a steak without the distinct possibility of injury.) Both of my parents are right-handed, and I am not. I am so not-right-handed that it’s almost a disability. It got no better when I went to kindergarten and the teacher told all of us “The hand you _write_ with is your _right_ hand!” I’m almost thirty years old, and I still have to think for several seconds about which is right and which is left. > > On the other hand, I could read by the time I was four. 🙂 Yep. I could read and write by Kindergarten, but couldn’t tie my shoes or use scissors without help. But it wasn’t until first grade that I got the whole “use your right hand” BS. You’d of thought people would be more progressive by 1984, but obviously not. When I worked in a SPed preschool/kindergarten, these were the goals for kids going on to public school: Young Preschoolers (3s & young 4s) Can recognize one’s own name in writing Can sit with a group Knows basic colors - red, blue, green, yellow, brown, pink, purple, orange, black, white Begins to count Does what teachers request without tears Helps put on own coats and boots Older Preschoolers/Kindergartners (older 4s to young 6s) Can recognize the ABCs Begins to write the upper case letters Begins to sound out letters Can count higher than 10 Can more or less get self ready to go outside (help needed with zippers, shoelaces okay) Puts belongings in correct cubby without prompting Uses restrooms independently, if physically capable Listens to adults with consistency Given these were the expectations for kids with varying disabilities, including some mental retardation, I think it’s reasonable to expect that a typical five-year-old _should_ be capable of these things too. Whether they can or not probably depends more on someone taking the time to teach them than anything else. I’d like a cite for **MLS’** claim about brain development, given that even the most developmentally delayed kids I’ve known made some progress at ages 4-5 in those areas. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-time-you-enter-kindergarten-you-should-be-able-to/318552.md?page=2)