# "By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 1, 2003, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-way-is-there-anyone-on-board-who-knows-how-to-fly-a-plane/178927 "2003-06-01T08:01:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-way-is-there-anyone-on-board-who-knows-how-to-fly-a-plane/178927/41 "2003-06-03T10:23:37Z")
:dubious: Ya gotta wonder about a guy who claims the average monkey can be taught to fly… yet never manged to finish his license. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-way-is-there-anyone-on-board-who-knows-how-to-fly-a-plane/178927/42 "2003-06-03T11:11:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pilot141 \* > \*\*So, if for some reason this DID ever happen, I’d say the chances are pretty good you’d survive…IF you have an autopilot and no damage to the airplane. Get rid of the autopilot, or add in a control problem…that means (more) trouble. \*\* Can I add a pointed question? Would center tell the newbie emergency pilot to dump all fuel just before landing? Wouldn’t that _seriously_ increase chances of survival should something go wrong? Tripler Even I can’t fathom “autoland”. You guys are pulling my chain, right? ---
**Author:** ![chukhung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@chukhung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chukhung)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-way-is-there-anyone-on-board-who-knows-how-to-fly-a-plane/178927/43 "2003-06-03T15:15:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Broomstick \* > That’s been policy for decades in the US - the NTSB does not release black box recordings to the public. Any “tapes” you hear on the news are either air traffic control recordings or from foreign sources. \*\*Nor are written transcripts normally released. > \*\* > > [Emphasis added] While it’s true that the NTSB does not play the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) tapes to the public, it does release transcripts from these tapes. From this page from the National Transportation Safety Board, [http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/CVR\_FDR.htm](http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/CVR_FDR.htm) > [@](#): > > The CVR recordings are treated differently than the other factual information obtained in an accident investigation. Due to the highly sensitive nature of the verbal communications inside the cockpit, Congress has required that the Safety Board not release any part of a CVR tape recording. Because of this sensitivity, a high degree of security is provided for the CVR tape and its transcript. The content and timing of release of the written transcript are strictly regulated: under federal law, transcripts of pertinent portions of cockpit voice recordings are released at a Safety Board public hearing on the accident or, if no hearing is held, when a majority of the factual reports are made public. If you scroll to Appendix B of this document (warning PDF file), [http://www.ntsb.gov/Aviation/Manuals/MajorInvestigationsManualApp.pdf](http://www.ntsb.gov/Aviation/Manuals/MajorInvestigationsManualApp.pdf) it says > [@](#): > > Per 49 U.S.C. §1114©, a factual report with a transcript is released to the public only when the docket is opened to the public (see From 49 U.S.C. §1114–Disclosure, availability, and use of information). Upon the opening of the docket, the CVR factual report with transcript may be made available through electronic means, including via the Safety Board’s website: [http://www.ntsb.gov](http://www.ntsb.gov). Finally, for a random example of CVR transcript that is publicly available, scroll to page 96 (Appendix B) of this document (again, PDF), [http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1996/AAR9605.pdf](http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1996/AAR9605.pdf) for a transcript of the conversation that went on in the cockpit of American Airlines Flight 1572 when it hit the trees near East Granby Connecticut on November 12, 1995. ---
**Author:** ![Berkut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@Berkut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Berkut)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-way-is-there-anyone-on-board-who-knows-how-to-fly-a-plane/178927/44 "2003-06-03T17:05:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tripler \* > \*\*Even I can’t fathom “autoland”. You guys are pulling my chain, right? \*\* Nope. Modern (and some not-so-modern) airliners are perfectly content to land on their own and rollout within 5 feet of the runway centerline. As far as I know, it’s the only way to legally execute a Cat IIIC approach in 0/0 conditions. Even on a Cat II approach, the minimums are so low that if you do go missed, _the wheels may touch the ground anyway_. Yikes! ---
**Author:** ![pilot141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pilot141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pilot141)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-way-is-there-anyone-on-board-who-knows-how-to-fly-a-plane/178927/45 "2003-06-03T17:31:16Z")
**JoeyG** has it right. Autoland is a capability found on almost all airliners flying today. And on a Cat II autoland with a decision height of 50 feet, if something goes wrong at, say 70 feet and you initiate a go-around you WILL touch down before the go-around starts. Very eye-opening. **Tripler** as far as fuel dumping it would depend on the situation. Some airplanes can’t dump fuel (DC-9/MD-80/90 group for one). If this event occurred on a 747 just beginning a ten-hour flight, then fuel dumping would be a player. On a 757/767 doing a transcontinental flight, maybe during the first half of the flight - after that it wouldn’t matter. While fuel is always equated with fire in an accident, it also means OPTIONS while in the air. Lots of fuel means lots of time to find the best person, get them comfortable with the autopilot, and practicing maneuvers. If the gross weight needs to be reduced fuel dumping would be done AFTER everyone is comfortable and ready to start the descent. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-way-is-there-anyone-on-board-who-knows-how-to-fly-a-plane/178927/46 "2003-06-03T18:51:53Z")
Hey **Pilot141** , I recall reading that certain airplanes can not only do the autoland, but can actually taxi themselves off the runway at a certain intersection. Is that true, and if so, which planes and which airports have that equipment? ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-way-is-there-anyone-on-board-who-knows-how-to-fly-a-plane/178927/47 "2003-06-03T19:52:16Z")
I have to say I’m a little surprsied that small plane pilots have that much trouble landing the big birds in simulations. I’m not a real pilot, but I have taken lessons and have been flying sims since they first came out, a flight nerd if you will. I’ve always had the thought that if I were on a big plane and they desperately needed someone to fly it in an emergency I could fill in. I guess its better to learn this now than when the moment comes… ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-way-is-there-anyone-on-board-who-knows-how-to-fly-a-plane/178927/48 "2003-06-03T20:59:31Z")
**Bongmaster** , aviation has taught me to be humble. I used to think I’d be able to handle certain situations with no problem because I had simulated them, or built up to them in the real thing. In many cases I was wrong or premature about my abilities. A few cases in point: **Flying in the clouds:** Yes, sim time is excellent. Necessary even, I would say. But the real thing is a whole other matter. Getting my instrument rating was a huge piece of work. I’m qualified, but I don’t think I’ll ever approach IFR flying cavalierly. I’m dynamite on the sim. The real thing is very intimidating. **Aerobatics:** I throw the thing all over the place on the sim. I read all about it. Talked to people about it. Reality? I nearly lost my lunch and was scared senseless by simple spin training. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=154383&highlight=spin+and+training](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=154383&highlight=spin+and+training) **Wind:** I used to crank up all the wind the sim could put out and I could land it. In real life, this is intimidating until you really get some experience. You’re worried about breaking the plane, yourself, nearby buildings, etc… My point here is that I have a good amount of real world and sim experience, but wouldn’t kid myself that I would be able to handle a big bird in an emergency. Frankly, I am doubtful of my ability to handle something as relatively simple as a KingAir turboprop without training. I honestly hope it never happens to me or anyone else. However, it’s also implicit in what I’ve said that most anything is possible with training and experience. ---
**Author:** ![pilot141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pilot141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pilot141)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-way-is-there-anyone-on-board-who-knows-how-to-fly-a-plane/178927/49 "2003-06-03T22:06:49Z")
**Gassendi** I’ve heard of that “autotaxi” system as well, but I don’t know a lot about it. It’s basically transmitters embedded in the taxiways that talk to a sensor in airplane’s nosegear. It was designed for use in really low visibility (ie Cat IIIc operations). I think maybe London Heathrow or Frankfurt was going to try it out. None of our airplanes are capable of it, and I don’t know which (if any) airline has equipped it on their airplanes. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-way-is-there-anyone-on-board-who-knows-how-to-fly-a-plane/178927/50 "2003-06-04T13:32:45Z")
757s and 767s do not have provisions to dump fuel. If for soem reason you want to reduce your fuel load, you’ve got to fly around in circles until you’ve burnt it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-the-way-is-there-anyone-on-board-who-knows-how-to-fly-a-plane/178927.md?page=2)