# By What Logic Did Jesus Die For My Sins? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 7, 2002, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724 "2002-11-07T15:38:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/101 "2002-11-21T04:21:30Z")
I always understood Abraham and Isaac to be a metaphor-his son was the most precious thing to him, but he was willing to give it up for a “Greater Good” or whatever. Not that it was literal. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/102 "2002-11-21T13:13:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*I always understood Abraham and Isaac to be a metaphor-his son was the most precious thing to him, but he was willing to give it up for a “Greater Good” or whatever. > > Not that it was literal. \*\* What makes you believe that the story of Abraham and Isaac wasn’t literal, that it didn’t really happen? I see nothing in the story to indicate that it wasn’t real or that it didn’t happen. Do you spiritualize all Scripture? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/103 "2002-11-21T15:42:35Z")
IT IS FINISHED, Oswald Chambers Thursday, Nov. 21 John 17:4 I have finished the work which Thou gavest Me to do. The death of Jesus Christ is the performance in history of the very Mind of God. There is no room for looking on Jesus Christ as a martyr; His death was not something that happened to Him which might have been prevented. His death was the reason He came. Never build your teaching of forgiveness on the fact that God is our Father and He forgives us because He loves us. It is untrue to Jesus Christ’s Revelation of God; it makes the Cross unnecessary and the Redemption “much ado about nothing.” God forgives sin because of the Death of Christ. God could forgive us in no other way than by the death of His Son and Jesus is exalted to Savior because of His death. We see Jesus…because of the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor. The greatest note of triumph that ever sounded in the ears of a startled universe was that sounded at the Cross of Christ…It is finished. That is the last word in the redemption of man. Anything that belittles or diminished the Holiness of God by a false view of the love of God is untrue to the Revelation of God given by Jesus Christ. Never allow the thought that Jesus Christ stands with us against God out of pity and compassion; that He became a curse for us out of sympathy for us. Jesus Christ became a curse for us by the Divine decree. Our portion of realizing the meaning of the curse is conviction of sin; this is the great mercy of God. God hates sin; and Calvary is the estimate of HIs hatred. I’ve only posted this as I felt it pertained to the subject of the OP. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/104 "2002-11-21T15:46:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*Don’t know where this guy has been all his life to say that God is not pleasant. Never read anything so far off base that it’s not even in the ballpark. The whole teachings of Jesus are about God’s love and forgiveness. > > Give me a break. I am surprised you would even read such an obvious false prophet. > > Love > Leroy \*\* He didn’t say God is not pleasant. He said beware of the pleasant view some have of God. I posted today’s devotional also as it pertains to the OP and I’m sure you’ll not like that one either. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/105 "2002-11-21T15:47:54Z")
God **is** love, but He is also **just.** ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/106 "2002-11-21T15:50:14Z")
I wish this thing had an edit button! By the way, the love and forgiveness of God comes at the price of the death of Christ. It shows His hatred of sin and the price that was necessary in order for us to be forgiven. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/107 "2002-11-21T15:51:14Z")
Amen:) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/108 "2002-11-21T15:55:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Never build your teaching of forgiveness on the fact that God is our Father and He forgives us because He loves us. It is untrue to Jesus Christ’s Revelation of God; it makes the Cross unnecessary and the Redemption “much ado about nothing.” Pardon me, **His4Ever** , but when you pit Oswald Chambers against John the Beloved Disciple, I’ve got to say that I’ll stand by the explicit words of Scripture. (And I never thought that you and I would be in a debate where _I_ would say that to \*you!! :)) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/109 "2002-11-21T16:01:55Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by His4ever_ > > It shows His hatred of sin and the price that was necessary in order for us to be forgiven. If God hates sin, then why did he create it? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/110 "2002-11-21T16:02:35Z")
Did He? I thought it was the serpent that started it all. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/111 "2002-11-21T16:16:26Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by vanilla_ > > Did He? > I thought it was the serpent that started it all. Well, who created the serpent? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/112 "2002-11-21T16:33:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, who created the serpent? Actually, the implication of that question is not far off from the actual text of Genesis: [quote] 11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?” 12 The man said, “The woman _whom You gave_ {to be} with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate.” 13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” And the woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” (Genesis 3:11-13, NASV) In short, Adam says, “It’s not my fault, it’s hers – the woman whom **You** created is to blame.” And, of course, Eve passes the buck along to the snake, who is presumably looking around for an aardvark or duckbilled platypus to hang the blame on, himself. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/113 "2002-11-21T17:29:26Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Polycarp_ > > Eve passes the buck along to the snake, who is presumably looking around for an aardvark or duckbilled platypus to hang the blame on, himself. LOL 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/114 "2002-11-21T17:37:43Z")
Well, actually it _was_ the platypus!! But try explaining the platypus to a 6th century B.C. Israelite. So they just said it was the serpent and had it done with. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/115 "2002-11-21T20:31:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*If God hates sin, then why did he create it? \*\* God did **not** create sin, man did. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/116 "2002-11-21T20:38:05Z")
> [@](#): > > God did not create sin, man did. And who created man? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/117 "2002-11-21T21:44:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*I wish this thing had an edit button! > By the way, the love and forgiveness of God comes at the price of the death of Christ. It shows His hatred of sin and the price that was necessary in order for us to be forgiven. \*\* Someone must die before God can love us? What?!! This is what you believe? God is incapable of hate, God is unconditional love. Whatever it is you worship, you didn’t get it from the Bible or the teachings of Jesus. People who teach fear of God, are full of it, fear that is. When love comes it will cast out the fear, seek love. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/118 "2002-11-21T21:50:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*IT IS FINISHED, Oswald Chambers Thursday, Nov. 21 > > Never allow the thought that Jesus Christ stands with us against God out of pity and compassion; that He became a curse for us out of sympathy for us. Jesus Christ became a curse for us by the Divine decree. Our portion of realizing the meaning of the curse is conviction of sin; this is the great mercy of God. > > \*\* Jesus is a curse? I have never before read such nonsense. Time to look up the word cult in the dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![Accipiter1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@Accipiter1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accipiter1)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/119 "2002-11-21T21:55:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*God is incapable of hate, God is unconditional love. > \*\* What do you base this upon? Do you have a biblical support for this claim? I don’t have any quotes right now, but I seem to remember that the bible does teach that God can hate as in the passage where it is attributed to God that he said of Jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated (paraphrased-can’t remember the exact quote). And nowhere have I read that God’s love is unconditional. Where is that at? (Just curious as to how you came to this conclusion) ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724/120 "2002-11-21T22:14:49Z")
God shouldn’t have told Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge. He _should_ have told them not to eat talking snakes. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/by-what-logic-did-jesus-die-for-my-sins/135724.md?page=7)