# Bye Bye Baby (party to finance an abortion) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 9, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416 "2009-07-09T04:38:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/21 "2009-07-09T09:33:51Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Sorry, is that in the US? Sorry, you came as a graduate student, right? School insurances vary widely, and there is a difference between what the insurance covers for graduate students vs what it covers for undergraduate students, and how much is covered. My graduate insurance right now covers ob/gyn procedures (I’m guessing abortion is included, haven’t gone check). My other graduate insurance wouldn’t cover regular gyn prevention things (and I doubt it covered abortion, being from a very conservative place), and I’m doubtful my undergraduate insurance covered it. Access to the clinics is not always “free” or even cheap. I know, I asked for other gyn procedures after my school health center turned me down and declined doing a Pap smear on me, one of their (graduate/professional) students. That said, I do find the whole party thing icky. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/22 "2009-07-09T10:38:34Z")
> [@Tanaqui](#): > > If you agree that abortion is something that should be freely available it is pure hypocrisy to whine about how inhuman this is. To me, the general tone in this thread is all about shame and condemnation. Shame on this loose woman with her drinking and her dancing and her kegger-throwing sex-having self. If this woman was having a baby that was the product of an accidental pregnancy, no one would bat an eye at her having a baby shower. (In fact, the article mentions such a party.) By talking about the issue, this woman simply embraces this fact. Good for her. If you believe that abortion is killing another human, then complain about the fact that women are allowed to get abortions. Complaining about the party seems like missing the forest for the trees. Actually, it’s entirely possible to believe that abortion should be available but also feel that you’re more or less killing a human in the process. (My husband is of this viewpoint, where he believes that it should be available regardless of his personal feelings **and** that his opinion is that after month 4 or so, you’ve probably gone past the “lump of cells” stage.) In that point of view, there is no hypocrisy in feeling that this isn’t appropriate. It’s also quite easily possible to feel ashamed of an unwanted pregnancy regardless of your opinions on whether you’d have an abortion and thus find this kind of public display to hit bad buttons in you. Me, I find the whole “womb” decor thing seriously tacky, but I feel that way when it’s used for other medical things too - those “about to give birth” woman cakes/realistic baby cakes at baby showers, various internal organ cakes I’ve seen, knitted breasts/female reproductive organs as presents, etc. I think it’s a good statement on the problems of health insurance and accessibility to abortion services - part of the problem was she had considered having to travel from **Indiana to Ohio** to get the abortion previously - and would have had my “Miss Liberal conscience” soothed more if there was something about how any extra money would be donated to groups that help fight for abortions to be available/to get women who need them to the providers, but this was a very limited viewpoint article in the first place - which is what the Jezebel readers need to think about. It was written from that POV for probably a very good reason, and I wonder how many would have screamed if he’d tried to get “into Maggie’s head” instead of focusing on the alienation of her boyfriend. Oh, and Maggie’s friends need to fuck off for being bitches about him. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/23 "2009-07-09T11:36:30Z")
> [@KSO](#): > > I’m unambiguously pro-choice and I am repulsed by this. Maybe in a month or so, Maggie can throw another party to raise money so she and her partner can buy condoms. Why the presumption that she wasn’t using any? Condoms have a pretty high failure rate with average use. The pill’s effectiveness can be reduced significantly if you take a course of antibiotics or if something arises and you bungle how you take them for just a few days at just the wrong time of the month. It seems contradictory to describe yourself as “unambiguously pro-choice” and yet immediately presume irresponsibility on this woman’s part _and_ take on a scolding tone about her need for contraceptives with absolutely no evidence whatsoever that she wasn’t using them. Accidents happen. That’s part of what being pro-choice recognizes. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/24 "2009-07-09T12:00:59Z")
> [@Tanaqui](#): > > I have to say I think it is perfectly fine. If you agree that abortion is something that should be freely available it is pure hypocrisy to whine about how inhuman this is. To me, the general tone in this thread is all about shame and condemnation. Shame on this loose woman with her drinking and her dancing and her kegger-throwing sex-having self. If this woman was having a baby that was the product of an accidental pregnancy, no one would bat an eye at her having a baby shower. (In fact, the article mentions such a party.) By talking about the issue, this woman simply embraces this fact. Good for her. If you believe that abortion is killing another human, then complain about the fact that women are allowed to get abortions. Complaining about the party seems like missing the forest for the trees. And a little hint–women can still get pregnant even if they are using condoms and birth control. So let’s drop the judgmental nonsense. > > And it’s not like she was celebrating the abortion by throwing a party–seems a bizarre connection to draw. Did the party my friends threw to raise money for another friend’s leukemia treatments celebrate leukemia? Did it mean we were happy my friend had leukemia? Quite the opposite. I would be glad to help a friend out in the same situation–having a baby is not exactly the same as having a form of terminal cancer, but it still changes your life a whole lot. If you are not in the right situation, it can destroy your life. That’s exactly why access to abortion (and that includes being able to afford it) is so important. To me there are things that should be kept private. The vast majority of medical procedures are private things. You shouldn’t have a hernia party. Or a nose job party. I know people who have thrown end of chemo parties - that seems reasonable. Or cancer hat parties. A big other thing that should be kept private is sex. This involves both a medical procedure and the implication that your’ve been engaged in the horizontal hula. The second issue here is that one NEVER asks for money for themselves from your friends. Nor gifts. I think throwing yourself a birthday party is tacky because it looks like you are asking people for gifts. I think wedding showers given by the bride’s mother is tacky. Given these two things - shaking down your friends to have an abortion is just about the tackiest thing I can come up with. I think shaking down your friends to get a boob job might be similarly tacky. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/25 "2009-07-09T12:13:06Z")
**Dangerosa** said what I found icky and tacky about it that I didn’t know how to say. I cannot imagine throwing a party to ask friends for money. My close friends may know about what’s going on and it will be up to them to offer whatever they want. I cannot imagine throwing a party for that. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/26 "2009-07-09T12:22:10Z")
I don’t believe this is real. It’s just the kind of rumor/urban legend somebody with an agenda (pro-life, or just out to shock) would start. It reminds me of the female art student who had her fifteen minutes of fame with a painting using blood and bloodclots that were supposedly her own aborted fetuses. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/27 "2009-07-09T12:25:10Z")
My choice is to move this over to IMHO, since the OP is asking for opinions. And because the idea is just icky, and I don’t want the thread in my forum. twicks, MPSIMS mod ---
**Author:** ![KSO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@KSO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSO)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/28 "2009-07-09T12:50:37Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Why the presumption that she wasn’t using any? Condoms have a pretty high failure rate with average use. The pill’s effectiveness can be reduced significantly if you take a course of antibiotics or if something arises and you bungle how you take them for just a few days at just the wrong time of the month. > > It seems contradictory to describe yourself as “unambiguously pro-choice” and yet immediately presume irresponsibility on this woman’s part _and_ take on a scolding tone about her need for contraceptives with absolutely no evidence whatsoever that she wasn’t using them. Accidents happen. That’s part of what being pro-choice recognizes. You’re right–we have absolutely no info whatsoever on what contraception, if any, was used or whether it was used properly. An unfair statement on my part. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/29 "2009-07-09T13:03:20Z")
Doesn’t anyone else smell BS here? Duncan’s article reads like fiction - a fable to make a particular point. I’m not buying that this party ever really took place. EDIT: Ooops, I scrolled down too fast. **Maastricht** said this before me. But I agree. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/30 "2009-07-09T13:11:21Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > This involves both a medical procedure and the implication that your’ve been engaged in the horizontal hula. Which is different from a baby shower how? Like you, I don’t love the idea of “fundraising” by shaking your friends down for money or gifts in \*any \*situation, but it does seem to be generally socially acceptable. Unless someone can explain to me how this is fundamentally different from trying to raise money for any other reason, I’m not mad at 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/31 "2009-07-09T13:36:34Z")
I’m a little torn, too. It may be icky but it’s not really that different from cancer balls and stuff like that, is it? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/32 "2009-07-09T14:31:02Z")
I do agree that this is either fiction, or the product of two seriously flawed people, who are probably quite better off not being parents. In fact, the participation of their friends pretty much confirms that: “lets all chip in to make sure these two don’t have a baby, and celebrate two less procreating whack jobs ! ! !” I’d love to see them throw a vasectomy party next. In fact, we might start a trend. Like for that guy who gave up his 9 kids and then fathered twins. We could throw virtual vasectomy/ligation parties for anyone we see in the news abusing or neglecting their children. I smell a winner! In all seriousness though, there is a big difference between saying that abortion should be available, and saying that it should be celebrated. It is properly a sober and usually a desperate decision, and those who disagree with it would do well to concentrate on making it less necessary, rather than less available. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/33 "2009-07-09T14:31:07Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Which is different from a baby shower how? Baby showers may (in some sort of way) acknowledge that the pregnant woman had sex, but at least they (and bridal showers) are generally coordinated and planned by the friends themselves. The recipient of the gift is not involved, and may not know what is coming to him/her (I participated in a baby shower thrown to the baby’s dad, as he was our classmate). I cannot imagine throwing a party myself to raise money for something. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/34 "2009-07-09T14:38:06Z")
Technically, the showers may be thrown by friends or family, but I’m a little unclear on how registering for gifts is profoundly different from asking for money. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/35 "2009-07-09T14:40:16Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > In all seriousness though, there is a big difference between saying that abortion should be available, and saying that it should be celebrated. It is properly a sober and usually a desperate decision, and those who disagree with it would do well to concentrate on making it less necessary, rather than less available. Meh, having children should also be a sober decision, and while I personally don’t think we should celebrate 15 year olds having babies, people still tend to throw them showers. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/36 "2009-07-09T14:44:09Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Which is different from a baby shower how? > > Like you, I don’t love the idea of “fundraising” by shaking your friends down for money or gifts in \*any \*situation, but it does seem to be generally socially acceptable. Unless someone can explain to me how this is fundamentally different from trying to raise money for any other reason, I’m not mad at 'em. I’m not a big fan of baby showers either. Or wedding showers. Or any of the other excuses to throw gifts at people. If its become socially acceptable to shake down ones friends for cold hard cash, I’m still the little old lady decrying this as the sure sign civilization is at its end - along with wearing ballcaps in restaurants. I’m certainly not friends with anyone who would find this socially acceptable. And we’ve been maintaining the polite fiction for generations that having a baby has nothing at all to do with the conception. I’m just not sure that I can stretch that fiction to an abortion. Moreover, a baby shower that would feature a cake depicting the bloody afterbirth, and have games such as “who can do the best impression of a woman’s screams in labor” and “guess what sexual position the baby was conceived in” would be tacky (perhaps incredibly funny with the right crowd - tacky is often funny). But giving money is ruder than giving gifts. Throwing your own gift giving party is rude (showers are hosted at arm’s length if they are done properly). Soliciting money is ruder still. If a friend was throwing an abortion shower for her to collect all the stuff she is going to need as a non-mother (condoms?) perhaps you’d have an analogous situation. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/37 "2009-07-09T14:45:41Z")
Ok, I’ll say it, since no one else will. It’s icky because she’s celebrating killing another human being. She’s collecting money to go commit murder. And she’s having fun doing it (well, tried to). I know I’m making assumptions here, but this girl wasn’t raped. The fetus isn’t defective. The pregnancy isn’t complicated. The baby has to die because the parents don’t want it. Now if any of the above isn’t true (e.g. she _was_ raped), then I might retract my statement. But it seems to me that once again, it’s a selfish woman/couple that is getting an abortion not to avoid a pregnancy, but to avoid a child. She has a right to choose. She chose wrong. That’s why this it’s disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/38 "2009-07-09T14:49:19Z")
Thank you for your input. It isn’t terribly valuable to those of us who don’t believe abortion is murder, but you’re certainly entitled to feel that way. For those of us who see it as not any different from any other medical procedure, I’d still like someone to explain to me why hosting a fundraiser to pay for your kidney transplant is okay, but this isn’t. Or, for that matter, why it’s not okay to ask your friends to pay for your abortion, but it IS okay to ask your friends to pay for all the stuff you need, should you decide to have a baby? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/39 "2009-07-09T14:52:45Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Meh, having children should also be a sober decision, and while I personally don’t think we should celebrate 15 year olds having babies, people still tend to throw them showers. Having a baby is of necessity a public decision. You cannot easily hide the fact that you are having a baby. Moreover, a celebration of a new member of the community makes sense, since that person will soon be among the community - the community has a reason for a welcome. In contrast, having an abortion is generally considered a _private_ decision. Celebrating the non-arrival of a possible member makes no sense, since the lack of a baby is a non-event that has no impact on the future of the community. The two are not like cases. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/40 "2009-07-09T14:55:27Z")
Meh, some of us don’t think babies are any great shakes, and kinda wish you’d keep 'em to yourselves. Seriously folks, this is all about “Well, sure you have a right to your abortion, but it’s BAD and you should be ASHAMED and SUFFER.” And I say bullshit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416.md?page=3)