# Bye Bye Baby (party to finance an abortion) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 9, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416 "2009-07-09T04:38:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/61 "2009-07-09T15:33:26Z")
**Freudian Slit** , in general, I agree. I’m definitely not an oversharer, as a rule. But when it comes to this particular issue, part of the reason people feel so free to be all judgey is that they don’t realize that if they’re talking to four or more women, statistically, at least one of them has had an abortion. Personally, I’m not going to be silent, because it feels complicit in the idea that I should be ashamed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/62 "2009-07-09T15:34:10Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > In addition (well past edit time), why so quick to judge _some_ personal choices? What’s wrong with judging personal choices? Anyway, I wasn’t making any point at all about fundraising. I was saying that it’s not fair to compare abortion to something purely elective like a boob job. One procedure is necessary, the other is not. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/63 "2009-07-09T15:34:31Z")
This has, for me, nothing to do with shame. It has a hell of a lot to do with etiquette. Now, if after having your abortion, you had a huge sense of relief and wanted to invite a few select friends over to ‘celebrate’ - I could go there with you. “God, I’m so happy this is over - want to come over and I’ll mix up margaritas?” ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/64 "2009-07-09T15:36:29Z")
I just feel there’s a big difference between sharing and talking and…well, over-sharing. A friend telling me she had an abortion and us talking about it is one thing. A whole party? I’m pro-choice, but it unsettles me. I may be in the minority about this, but for example, Take Back the Night rallies really made me uncomfortable at school. I know, it’s good to be able to talk. But over-sharing…I just don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/65 "2009-07-09T15:37:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It definitely is, and I’ve said sometimes that we’re in an age of compulsive sharing - not only do people not keep things private, sometimes you get the impression they don’t know how. I don’t think that’s a good impulse. But the flip side of that is, of course, that in the past I think people didn’t just choose to keep things private, they felt that _had to_. Which is an unpleasant feeling. There was a time you couldn’t talk about cancer either. The larger issue is whether breaching of this particular barrier is in general a good thing and liberating, or simply an example of the continued erosion of civility. In this particular case I’m inclined to the latter view. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/66 "2009-07-09T15:38:28Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > It’s not. It’s assholish to compare an abortion to a boob job. It’s not a cosmetic procedure. > > And I’m not sure exactly why it’s TMI to implicitly acknowledge, without gory details, that one has had sexual intercourse. Most people do. It’s about as TMI as saying “I’m off to the ladies’ room.” Oh, and its a little assholish to say a boob job is a cosmetic procedure. My sister’s is to replace the breast lost to a mastectomy. Yeah, its “just” a cosmetic procedure - in the same way that carrying a pregnancy to term and choosing adoption is “merely inconvenient.” Neither is true. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/67 "2009-07-09T15:41:44Z")
Most boob jobs are not done for mastectomies, and I think it was clear to everyone that the analogy was intended to refer to a purely elective procedure. Ironically, if a breast cancer survivor DID have a party to raise money for reparative surgery after a mastectomy, no one would think there was anything tacky about it. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/68 "2009-07-09T15:42:59Z")
A boob job IS a cosmetic procedure. One doesn’t need breasts. That doesn’t mean that it’s shallow, or silly. I wasn’t judging people who get boob jobs, simply pointing out that it’s not an analogous procedure. And you know, your sister might not like you broadcasting her medical decisions. Some things are _private_. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/69 "2009-07-09T15:45:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Most boob jobs are not done for mastectomies, and I think it was clear to everyone that the analogy was intended to refer to a purely elective procedure. > > Ironically, if a breast cancer survivor DID have a party to raise money for reparative surgery after a mastectomy, no one would think there was anything tacky about it. I kind of would. I think parties thrown to raise money for the person are pretty tacky. Even bridal or baby showers thrown by the person getting married/having a baby are considered the height of tackiness. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/70 "2009-07-09T15:45:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What’s wrong with judging personal choices? Anyway, I wasn’t making any point at all about fundraising. I was saying that it’s not fair to compare abortion to something purely elective like a boob job. One procedure is necessary, the other is not. Nothing, as long as you know personal circumstances. Broad-brush judgments, such as the one you made, are wrong in principle. For some, a boob job is quite necessary for self-image and living a happy life. Who are you to judge the “necessity”? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/71 "2009-07-09T15:48:53Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Your disapproval has been noted, and will be given the consideration it merits. As has your opinion. That’s the second time you’ve politely told me to fuck off. I’m pretty sure you have to be the OP if you want to be the MC of the thread. I just can’t believe everyone is debating the “etiquette” of having an abortion party. It’s like the OP posted a link to a news item about a bank robbery and asks “Is it just me, or is this a bad thing?” and some say “Totally. I can’t believe they didn’t wear a tie” while others go “No, I think they had the proper attire.” Weird. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/72 "2009-07-09T15:49:14Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > A boob job IS a cosmetic procedure. One doesn’t need breasts. That doesn’t mean that it’s shallow, or silly. I wasn’t judging people who get boob jobs, simply pointing out that it’s not an analogous procedure. > > And you know, your sister might not like you broadcasting her medical decisions. Some things are _private_. One does not “need” to not be pregnant either, absent medical indications. It is “merely” very, very important for one’s life. Sort of like how some people feel about having breasts. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/73 "2009-07-09T15:53:05Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > A boob job IS a cosmetic procedure. One doesn’t need breasts. That doesn’t mean that it’s shallow, or silly. I wasn’t judging people who get boob jobs, simply pointing out that it’s not an analogous procedure. > > And you know, your sister might not like you broadcasting her medical decisions. Some things are _private_. Which is why I post on an anonymous message board. But when she has a fundraising party to pay for it, then I can see if I really feel the same way. And unless that fetus is going to kill you - an abortion is an elective procedure - you don’t need to not be pregnant. A procedure that I fully think you should be able to have, at any time, for any reason. But one that I don’t think you should fundraise for or a procedure that needs to be shared indiscriminately. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/74 "2009-07-09T15:54:11Z")
It’s a ridiculous comparison. Not being pregnant for some women is not just about self-esteem, or personal happiness, but about _not being able to take care of an another human being_. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/75 "2009-07-09T15:56:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Most boob jobs are not done for mastectomies, and I think it was clear to everyone that the analogy was intended to refer to a purely elective procedure. > > Ironically, if a breast cancer survivor DID have a party to raise money for reparative surgery after a mastectomy, no one would think there was anything tacky about it. Since I’m the person who made the original analogy, and I was thinking of my sister’s boob job (which, in the interest of not getting this dragged up later as me lying, hasn’t happened yet and she is not sure will happen), my intent was not to imply “purely elective” though I can understand how it would be taken that way. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/76 "2009-07-09T15:57:39Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I just feel there’s a big difference between sharing and talking and…well, over-sharing. Your boundaries are going to differ from other people’s. > [@](#): > > I may be in the minority about this, but for example, Take Back the Night rallies really made me uncomfortable at school. I know, it’s good to be able to talk. But over-sharing…I just don’t like it. That’s really unfortunate, because the whole point of these events (at least from what I saw) is that if you’ve been abused, it doesn’t have to become a Deep Dark Secret That Overwhelms Your Life and Must Be Shared With No One. This is more important than “Maggie” raising money for her abortion with a party. I went to one of these in college (I think it was only one), and some of the chants and things were silly, but for the people who’d been abused, talking about it in public actually did matter. You say “it’s good to be able to talk,” and it is. Being able to talk involves talking. 😛 If these people went around advertising their issues to everyone they meet, I’d say that was symptomatic of a problem. But you’re suggesting that not keeping it totally private is over-sharing. That’s part of the reason these events exist in the first place. > [@Malthus](#): > > The larger issue is whether breaching of this particular barrier is in general a good thing and liberating, or simply an example of the continued erosion of civility. > > In this particular case I’m inclined to the latter view. “The continued erosion of civility:” what happens when young people decide not to adopt the manners and pruderies of their parents. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/77 "2009-07-09T15:58:02Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > As has your opinion. That’s the second time you’ve politely told me to fuck off. I’m pretty sure you have to be the OP if you want to be the MC of the thread. Honestly, I’m just pointing out that if you’re against abortion, then clearly you’re going to be against this. That’s fine, but it’s also a no-brainer which doesn’t require any justification or argument beyond the original statement. It doesn’t exactly add to the conversation about why this isn’t okay, but baby showers and fundraisers for other varieties of medical treatment are. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/78 "2009-07-09T15:58:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s a ridiculous comparison. Not being pregnant for some women is not just about self-esteem, or personal happiness, but about _not being able to take care of an another human being_. Yeah, for _some_ women. Just as _some_ women find that having no tits makes them feel like freaks, and prevents them from ever living a normal life. No-one is arguing that the two procedures are not _different_, but the fact is they are not different _in any way that matters for this argument_ - both are elective procedures undertaken for personal reasons which may be incredibly significant to the person involved, depending on circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/79 "2009-07-09T16:00:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Your boundaries are going to differ from other people’s. > > That’s really unfortunate, because the whole point of these events (at least from what I saw) is that if you’ve been abused, it doesn’t have to become a Deep Dark Secret That Overwhelms Your Life and Must Be Shared With No One. > This is more important than “Maggie” raising money for her abortion with a party. I went to one of these in college (I think it was only one), and some of the chants and things were silly, but for the people who’d been abused, talking about it in public actually did matter. You say “it’s good to be able to talk,” and it is. Being able to talk involves talking. 😛 If these people went around advertising their issues to everyone they meet, I’d say that was symptomatic of a problem. But you’re suggesting that not keeping it totally private is over-sharing. That’s part of the reason these events exist in the first place. I know, and maybe that’s my hang up. I just think that, for me, telling one or two people is one thing. Broadcasting it to a crowd of people just…ugh. Kind of nauseates me. I know people are different. I just really hate the mindset where all things confessional are good. Like, the countless memoirs of people whose only real thing to share is they had an eating disorder/were raped/are bipolar/had an addiction. (Okay, I read those as guilty pleasures, granted.) I just can’t help thinking is there nothing that is too private? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/80 "2009-07-09T16:01:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “The continued erosion of civility:” what happens when young people decide not to adopt the manners and pruderies of their parents. 😉 So you are of the former view, I take it. That being the case, we must simply agree to disagree: though I do not think myself this is a _generational_ matter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416.md?page=5)