# Bye Bye Baby (party to finance an abortion) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 9, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416 "2009-07-09T04:38:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/161 "2009-07-11T22:59:29Z")
Erm… how is this couple’s situation society’s problem, again? I mean, aside from “society’s” overwhelming need to hold forth about it. ---
**Author:** ![Rosie\_is\_Tired](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Rosie\_is\_Tired](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rosie_is_Tired)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/162 "2009-07-12T02:11:23Z")
Huh. Strange. I didn’t think about the party aspect of this twice when I saw it on Jezebel. My take on this: If I were pregnant, I’d consider abortion. I’m not sure, but I’d consider it. If I did decide on abortion, I’d need the following: 1. Money (I’m 19, interning is my money source, mostly independent from my mum who doesn’t have much insurance) 2. Support from friends 3. Happy time that pulls me out of being scared and depressed So a party that accomplishes all of those goals never stuck me as being odd. Actually, it struck me as a semi-decent idea. Although- my idea of a party is inviting over about six other people, baking cookies and playing board games, so I’m not sure if I’m visualizing the party correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/163 "2009-07-12T02:44:57Z")
Question – does Planned Parenthood offer help for people who have trouble paying for contraceptives (the pill and such?) ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/164 "2009-07-12T04:25:25Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Question – does Planned Parenthood offer help for people who have trouble paying for contraceptives (the pill and such?) Go to [plannedparenthood.org](http://plannedparenthood.org) and find the location nearest you. It should tell you what services are offered there, and provide you with your clinic’s fee policy. If what you want is not offered there, maybe the next closest one has that service. The one nearest me offers a sliding fee scale based on your income. From their site: > [@](#): > > If you are uninsured, you may qualify for a state-funded program or a lower fee scale. Please bring the following documents: > > ``` > * birth certificate > * pay stub > * photo ID > * proof of residence > > ``` > > Fees for services are based on your household income. > > Please bring proof of income when you arrive for your visit. > > You will not be turned away because of your inability to pay. ISTM that, if you wanted an abortion and you were uninsured and flat broke, you’d be smart to get to a PP that offered abortion services. They will set up a payment plan for you and will not turn you away if you can’t pay at the time of the appointment. ---
**Author:** ![lshaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e36b37/32.png) [@lshaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lshaw)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/165 "2009-07-12T08:46:17Z")
> [@Rosie\_is\_Tired](#): > > Huh. Strange. I didn’t think about the party aspect of this twice when I saw it on Jezebel. > > My take on this: > > If I were pregnant, I’d consider abortion. I’m not sure, but I’d consider it. If I did decide on abortion, I’d need the following: > > 1. Money (I’m 19, interning is my money source, mostly independent from my mum who doesn’t have much insurance) > 2. Support from friends > 3. Happy time that pulls me out of being scared and depressed > > So a party that accomplishes all of those goals never stuck me as being odd. Actually, it struck me as a semi-decent idea. Although- my idea of a party is inviting over about six other people, baking cookies and playing board games, so I’m not sure if I’m visualizing the party correctly. I feel the same way. I wasn’t shocked or appalled when I saw that piece, but then I read people’s reactions here, and I started feeling a bit strange. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/166 "2009-07-12T14:32:04Z")
I don’t know, maybe it was Jezebel’s whole in your face attitude to it. You know, fuck patriarchy, let’s do whatever the hell we want attitude. Then again, I haven’t been too impressed with them since the women who started it had that interview where they got trashed on screen and said stuff like how the rapists of their generation aren’t that assertive. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/167 "2009-07-12T15:21:09Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > With correct use, contraceptive failure is so small as to be irrevelant. That doesn’t mean that contraceptive failure never happens. In fact, it suggests that contraceptive failure among some percentage of the huge number of people who use these methods is _inevitable_. Even in statistics, “closet to zero” \<\> zero. > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Don’t skip a pill, wear a condom, blah, blah, blah, you’ll be fine. The fact that this simple way to never need an abortion at all totally flew over the heads of these college-educated adults should be their problem, not society’s. I read both the piece in the OP and the post to which that one linked. Where did anyone say that the pregnant woman and her boyfriend failed to use contraception appropriately? Or are you just assuming this based on your incorrect understanding of the stats you cited above? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/168 "2009-07-12T15:37:32Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > I read both the piece in the OP and the post to which that one linked. Where did anyone say that the pregnant woman and her boyfriend failed to use contraception appropriately? Or are you just assuming this based on your incorrect understanding of the stats you cited above? You’re right, I don’t know what kind of contraceptive measures they took. No one does. But I was responding to the idea that it was horrible these people should be expected to abstain from sex because they couldn’t afford an abortion. My point is, no one expects them to abstain and for nearly 100% of the population, correct contraceptive use will make the idea of an abortion moot. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/169 "2009-07-13T14:54:21Z")
> [@Soapbox\_Monkey](#): > > You have every right to have sex as responsibly or irresponsibly as you wish, but if you happen to get pregnant, and don’t have the means to take care of the situation in whatever way you see fit, I have every right to say “tough shit.” That’s very true, and for all we know, some of their friends chose not to go to the party or contribute towards the abortion fund. I understand saying, “This should be their problem, not mine,” but consider this: if they can’t afford an abortion, continuing the pregnancy would almost certainly mean they’d be signing up for WIC, possibly welfare, public schools, a state-funded child healthcare program if it exists where they live, and other publicly-funded programs designed to help poor families. Society is going to end up paying for their kid anyway, so if you’re concerned about the cost to society, you’re much better off funding abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/170 "2009-07-13T17:04:55Z")
My initial response to this situation was “fuck her” but then I realized the redundancy involved in the sentiment. I’m just curious if the person in question is also going to have an STD party to help pay for her current/future needs? ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/171 "2009-07-13T17:40:49Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > See if you can spot the flaw in this plan. He meant you go into debt for a few months and live frugally until it’s paid off. Sheesh! I was still in college when my old cat Lenny had an emergency medical crisis. I paid the $800 to save his life, mostly on my credit card. I was already living in poverty and $800 was an amount that I thought would destroy me. It meant living off day-old bagels and stale pasty for several months, and asking my parents and sister to lend me some cash to pay my utility bill. I can guarantee that if my then girlfriend and I had to terminate a pregancy, between the two of us, we would have found a way to cover it that did not involve our friends dancing with balloons decorating our living room. And although terminating a pregnancy would have been the right thing to do at the time, it still would have been a really big deal to us. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/172 "2009-07-13T17:50:26Z")
That’s an excellent plan, for someone who has the available credit. I presume they didn’t, or they’d have thought of that. Or maybe not, maybe they just didn’t want to pay 18% interest on an abortion. Who knows? And lots of people would tell you that spending $800 you don’t have to save a cat, and then borrowing more money to pay your utility bill is pretty irresponsible. I’m not one of them, but I can see how the argument can be made. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/173 "2009-07-13T18:04:48Z")
> [@The\_Weird\_One](#): > > That’s very true, and for all we know, some of their friends chose not to go to the party or contribute towards the abortion fund. > > I understand saying, “This should be their problem, not mine,” but consider this: if they can’t afford an abortion, continuing the pregnancy would almost certainly mean they’d be signing up for WIC, possibly welfare, public schools, a state-funded child healthcare program if it exists where they live, and other publicly-funded programs designed to help poor families. Society is going to end up paying for their kid anyway, so if you’re concerned about the cost to society, you’re much better off funding abortions. Not just that, but in a more direct way – Who do you think they would have asked to babysit? > [@Magiver](#): > > My initial response to this situation was “fuck her” but then I realized the redundancy involved in the sentiment. > > I’m just curious if the person in question is also going to have an STD party to help pay for her current/future needs? What person? You mean the _people_ – the boy and girl who had sex, got her pregnant and held the party? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/174 "2009-07-13T18:06:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > My initial response to this situation was “fuck her” but then I realized the redundancy involved in the sentiment. > > I’m just curious if the person in question is also going to have an STD party to help pay for her current/future needs? Just how well _do_ you know her? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/175 "2009-07-13T18:07:08Z")
Don’t be silly, Cat Fight. This is all about that dirty, dirty, sex-having whore. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/176 "2009-07-13T18:09:21Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I don’t know, maybe it was Jezebel’s whole in your face attitude to it. You know, fuck patriarchy, let’s do whatever the hell we want attitude. Then again, I haven’t been too impressed with them since the women who started it had that interview where they got trashed on screen and said stuff like how the rapists of their generation aren’t that assertive. WTF?!?! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/177 "2009-07-13T18:16:00Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > That’s an excellent plan, for someone who has the available credit. I presume they didn’t, or they’d have thought of that. Or maybe not, maybe they just didn’t want to pay 18% interest on an abortion. Who knows? If I didn’t have any credit, to keep my little buddy alive, I would have been prepared to sell my stuff or worked out a loan with a close friend or family members. As my family cared about both Lenny and me, floating me a bit of cash in the short term was perfectly OK with them. For something really serious happening to me or my girlfriend, it would have been the same. It seems weird to me that the couple in the OP had friends who were willing to show up for a party, but between the two of them, they had no one close enough to turn to when they needed it. Granted they may both come from religious families who would be less than supportive, but still, a _party_ would really not be something I’d consider in a significant situation like that. Even as a starving student, I would have been able to come up with $500 if I really, REALLY had to. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/178 "2009-07-13T18:16:28Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > That’s an excellent plan, for someone who has the available credit. I presume they didn’t, or they’d have thought of that. Or maybe not, maybe they just didn’t want to pay 18% interest on an abortion. Who knows? IME any college student can get a credit card. They practically beg you to take them. No one wants to pay 18% interest on anything, but if you want an abortion, you’re going to have to pay for it, and that is one possible way. Crying about the interest rate gets no sympathy from me, as it’s the cost of doing business, so to speak. It’s a hell of a lot cheaper than having a baby if you’re uninsured, that’s for damn sure. Also, and this has already been covered, if Maggie could get to a Planned Parenthood that offers abortion services (and there are some in Indiana), they will set the fee based on your income, and offer you a payment plan that I bet has more reasonable terms than Visa or MasterCard. Certainly the party was not the only way to finance this abortion. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/179 "2009-07-13T18:32:55Z")
But has anyone argued that it was the ONLY way to do it? Because again (apparently I can’t say this enough), it’s not what I’d have done. I think it’s tacky as hell. I just don’t see that it’s any tackier than throwing a party to raise money for ANY other reason. Hell, I’ve seen kids that age throw parties to raise money for the rent. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416/180 "2009-07-13T19:20:46Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > You’re right, I don’t know what kind of contraceptive measures they took. No one does. But I was responding to the idea that it was horrible these people should be expected to abstain from sex because they couldn’t afford an abortion. > > My point is, no one expects them to abstain and for nearly 100% of the population, correct contraceptive use will make the idea of an abortion moot. The site with failure rates on contraceptives that you linked to that shows that the most commonly used hormonal contraceptives – the Pill, the Patch and the ring – have a failure rate of **8** %. That means over the span of use, 8 of every 100 women using those methods will have a failure. That is _not_ an insignificant number. The failure for rate for condoms is nearly double that. Other barrier methods are even worse. “Correct” or, as the researchers put it, “perfect” contraceptive use is a great thing, and the rates are much lower for that, but quite clearly, the breadth of the gulf between “perfect” and “_typical_” says that in the real world, “perfect” doesn’t happen in practice all that often. So you’re still asking that poor/uninsured/underinsured people meet a standard that most people cannot, and for no reason other than your personal distaste for the idea that someone should have to ask for financial help to get an abortion. > [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > Even as a starving student, I would have been able to come up with $500 if I really, REALLY had to. That’s good for you. The couple in this situation couldn’t, or couldn’t have as easily as what they chose to do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-baby-party-to-finance-an-abortion/502416.md?page=10)