# Bye bye, McClellan! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2006, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289 "2006-04-19T14:07:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/41 "2006-04-19T16:20:45Z")
Pierre Salinger was Paris bureau chief and chief European correspondent for ABC News. How is that a commentary position? Bill Moyers’ most significant work for CBS News was in long-form documentaries and interviews. Again, this is not commentary, as the opinion of Bill Boyers isn’t supposed to be germane to what is being reported. George Stephanopoulos is listed as the ABC News chief Washington correspondent. Again, is this supposed to be a commentary position? Formerly this position was held by David Brinkley, who never worked in any kind of political role for the government. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/42 "2006-04-19T16:22:28Z")
All of what they say and said on the air is discussion, not simply stating the facts. Yes, I guess you don’t know the difference. How about discussing slander, since you brought it up? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/43 "2006-04-19T16:32:46Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > George Stephanopoulos is listed as the ABC News chief Washington correspondent. Again, is this supposed to be a commentary position? Formerly this position was held by David Brinkley, who never worked in any kind of political role for the government. David Brinkley constantly delivered commentary - it’s irrelevant that he wasn’t ever in government. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/44 "2006-04-19T16:43:28Z")
Can someone keeping score point out which of the figures being discussed went from working for a for-profit “news” organization to being a literal mouthpiece for the White House? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/45 "2006-04-19T16:59:17Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Can someone keeping score point out which of the figures being discussed went from working for a for-profit “news” organization to being a literal mouthpiece for the White House? What difference does it make if it’s not precisely the same move? Everyone who works in an administration has to support the President’s agenda. And since the spokesperson isn’t involved in policy making decisions, he’s always going to have to speak for things he doesn’t support personally. Besides, the move from news → government is less disturbing than the move in the opposite direction. All reporters have their own opinions, but as long as they keep them to themselves, we can at least hope they are working on some level of objectivity. If we know where there allegiance lies, then how are we to view their reporting? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/46 "2006-04-19T17:05:03Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I notice that you lept immediately to the defense of Moyers and not Salinger. That says something right there, doesn’t it? Aren’t you gone yet? Everybody else: Why are you falling for the old “change the subject” routine yet again? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/47 "2006-04-19T17:06:49Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t believe that Goldwater was even mentioned in that ad. By the way, that ad ran ONCE. That’s one time. One less than twice. Two less than thrice. When compared to the very real slanders repeatedly perpetrated by the Swift Boat Liars for Bush, it’s chump change. Actually, considering that the White House refuses to remove nuking Iran from its list of options, maybe we should brush off the ad again. As for hiring the Iraqi Press Minister - have you ever seen him and Scotty together? Just asking… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/48 "2006-04-19T17:10:11Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I notice that you lept immediately to the defense of Moyers and not Salinger. That says something right there, doesn’t it? It sure does: it says: 1. that I’m not familiar with Pierre Salinger; and 2. That you’re unwilling to admit the bleedin’ obvious–that your implication that MOyers is not well-respected is absurd; and 3. That you’re changing the subject again. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/49 "2006-04-19T17:25:29Z")
I’m not changing the subject. Someone mentioned Salinger and Moyers as examples of men who became respected commentators after being White House press secretaries. I was just pointing out that this wasn’t universal. Neither man was a saint. The subject comes up again with regard to Snow, and the double standard some are willing to apply to him. They will assume that, since he is being considered for a job in the administration, that his inpartiality and that of his network is suspect. Yet it is somehow out of line to apply the same standard to Democrats who go to work for broadcast networks, or the networks that hire them. Typical. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/50 "2006-04-19T17:30:57Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I’m not changing the subject. Someone mentioned Salinger and Moyers as examples of men who became respected commentators after being White House press secretaries. I was just pointing out that this wasn’t universal. Neither man was a saint. > > The subject comes up again with regard to Snow, and the double standard some are willing to apply to him. They will assume that, since he is being considered for a job in the administration, that his inpartiality and that of his network is suspect. Yet it is somehow out of line to apply the same standard to Democrats who go to work for broadcast networks, or the networks that hire them. > > Typical. Which newsmen went from working for a news network to working as a mouthpiece for the White House? Unless you’ve got one (and you certainly haven’t provided one so far), you are changing the subject. But that IS what you’re trying to do, so I’m sure you’ll “miss” this re-asking of the question as well. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/51 "2006-04-19T17:35:35Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Besides, the move from news --\> government is less disturbing than the move in the opposite direction. All reporters have their own opinions, but as long as they keep them to themselves, we can at least hope they are working on some level of objectivity. If we know where there allegiance lies, then how are we to view their reporting? It’s about the same imho. It doesn’t matter if you are questioning their past stories or their present stories. Both cause one to question the objectivity of the reporter, and that’s a very bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/52 "2006-04-19T17:49:01Z")
Again, I regard the move from government to the press, especially the supposedly “objective” role of a reporter, as worse, only because the press has a pretense of objectivity that can be called into question by the reporters very public past allegiances. And while there is a somewhat fuzzy line between commentary and reportage, positions like those held by Moyers and especially Salinger in the 1970’s and 1980’s were supposed to be positions of objective reporting, or at least that is how they were sold to the public. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/53 "2006-04-19T17:55:10Z")
Of course, television reporters really are nothing more than bulletproof hair and a mouth anyways. Don’t suppose it matters much which way they go. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/54 "2006-04-19T18:11:04Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Of course, television reporters really are nothing more than bulletproof hair and a mouth anyways. Don’t suppose it matters much which way they go. True, but let’s differentiate between “anchors” and “reporters”. I think you’re talking about anchors. When I see Dan Rather or whoever reporting a story in which Suzie Que is the “Whitehouse Correspondent”, I’m more concernead about Suzie Que’s objectivity than Dan’s. In the same way, I’m more concerned about a newspaper reporter’s objectivity than I am about the editor. You’d like to think both are as objective as possible, but the reporter is the primary source-- if he or she doesn’t get it right, then no one along the chain can make up for that. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/55 "2006-04-19T18:24:04Z")
Okay, conceded that Bill Moyers, like Richard Nixon, WInston Churchill, St. Sebastian, and Jesus, is not universally respected. Back to discussing Scott McClellan–and now Karl Rove! Okay, [Rove’s not totally gone](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/19/washington/19cnd-resign.html?hp&ex=1145505600&en=53aa51bcc89925b5&ei=5094&partner=homepage), but this sure looks shakeuppish. His move is bad news for Democrats, I think. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/56 "2006-04-19T18:28:25Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > True, but let’s differentiate between “anchors” and “reporters”. I think you’re talking about anchors. When I see Dan Rather or whoever reporting a story in which Suzie Que is the “Whitehouse Correspondent”, I’m more concernead about Suzie Que’s objectivity than Dan’s. In the same way, I’m more concerned about a newspaper reporter’s objectivity than I am about the editor. You’d like to think both are as objective as possible, but the reporter is the primary source-- if he or she doesn’t get it right, then no one along the chain can make up for that. You doubt my cynicism with television reporting? 🙂 This is just my humble opinion, but reporting has just become another stepping stone career. The local reporter wants to be the local anchor wants to be the national reporter wants to be the national anchor wants to be the news magazine host wants to have their own show on CNN/Fox/MSNBC and a best selling book. Now I’ll step off of my soapbox. Heights give me nosebleeds. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/57 "2006-04-19T18:31:44Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Back to discussing Scott McClellan–and now Karl Rove! > > Okay, [Rove’s not totally gone](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/19/washington/19cnd-resign.html?hp&ex=1145505600&en=53aa51bcc89925b5&ei=5094&partner=homepage), but this sure looks shakeuppish. Not gone at all. This “move” of Rove is just made to look like Bush has shaken up more than he has. I’m sure he was always going to be more involved in the fall '06 campaigns, and I have no doubts that if he wants to contribute to policy-making in the future, he can. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/58 "2006-04-19T18:32:23Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Okay, conceded that Bill Moyers, like Richard Nixon, WInston Churchill, St. Sebastian, and Jesus, is not universally respected. > > Back to discussing Scott McClellan–and now Karl Rove! > > Okay, [Rove’s not totally gone](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/19/washington/19cnd-resign.html?hp&ex=1145505600&en=53aa51bcc89925b5&ei=5094&partner=homepage), but this sure looks shakeuppish. His move is bad news for Democrats, I think. Nope. This is another non-move closer to scraping off the bumper sticker of a band you’re no longer interested or getting new fuzzy dice instead of fixing that muffler that has long since fallen off. Rove has lost none of his influence within the administration. He’s just found something different to occupy his free time. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/59 "2006-04-19T18:45:52Z")
> [@](#): > > All reporters have their own opinions, but as long as they keep them to themselves, we can at least hope they are working on some level of objectivity. If we know where there allegiance lies, then how are we to view their reporting? Tony Snow most certainly does not keep it to himself. I recall seeing him on Bill Maher’s show, where he pulled no punches as far as being a Bush apologist. If it were my news outfit, I wouldn’t allow my purportedly neutral correspondents and anchors to do opinion commentary, but that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289/60 "2006-04-19T19:38:08Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Tony Snow most certainly does not keep it to himself. I recall seeing him on Bill Maher’s show, where he pulled no punches as far as being a Bush apologist. > > If it were my news outfit, I wouldn’t allow my purportedly neutral correspondents and anchors to do opinion commentary, but that’s just me. Is he supposed to be a neutral correspondent? I thought the only really neutral guy on Fox TV was Shep Smith, whose show is a news show (as opposed to someone like O’Reilly which is pure commentary). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bye-bye-mcclellan/353289.md?page=4)