# CA AG issued an official ballot measure title to secede from US.  **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 26, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185 "2017-07-26T18:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/1 "2017-07-26T18:19:02Z")
Wasn’t this already decide at the cost of 620,000 lives? The bloodiest war the US ever fought? States can’t secede from the US. Uncle Sam will shoot your butt if you try. I live in a state that learned that lesson the hard way. Lincoln, “A house divided against itself can not stand.” [http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/house.htm](http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/house.htm) What is this nonsense? Why is the California AG going along with it? [http://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/article163629198.html](http://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/article163629198.html) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/2 "2017-07-26T18:27:36Z")
One assumes that this is a protest motion, meant to gather attention, and nothing else. If it’s serious, there are some very misguided people out there. Unilateral secession has certainly been ruled illegal by the Supreme Court\*, although that hasn’t stopped petitions: > [@](#): > > Threats and aspirations to secede from the United States, or arguments justifying secession, have been a feature of the country’s politics almost since its birth. Some have argued for secession as a constitutional right and others as from a natural right of revolution. In Texas v. White, the United States Supreme Court ruled unilateral secession unconstitutional, while commenting that revolution or consent of the States could lead to a successful secession. > **[Secession in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_the_United_States)** > > In the context of the United States, secession primarily refers to the voluntary withdrawal of one or more states from the Union that constitutes the United States; but may loosely refer to leaving a state or territory to form a separate territory or new state, or to the severing of an area from a city or county within a state. Advocates for secession are called disunionists by their contemporaries in various historical documents. > Threats and aspirations to secede from the United States, or a... \*although not if everyone agrees to it, apparently. The “Don’t let the Door Hit You in the Butt on Your Way Out” ruling. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/3 "2017-07-26T18:30:21Z")
California has a very robust initiative system. The only thing that the AG has done is to allow the initiative process to go forward. There are crazy initiatives proposed in California all the time. I’m not a fan of the initiative process, but as long as it exists, people are allowed to collect signatures and try to persuade their fellow Californians to support almost any cause. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/4 "2017-07-26T18:52:22Z")
oh, is #CalExit starting up again? I’m half inclined to take a “don’t let the door hit ya” attitude over it. I really doubt things would go as well for them as they think. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/5 "2017-07-26T19:00:56Z")
Drop California, add Puerto Rico. Easy Peasy, we don’t even have to change the flag. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/6 "2017-07-26T19:04:51Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Drop California, add Puerto Rico. Easy Peasy, we don’t even have to change the flag. Bonus: Fewer Democrats in the House of Representatives. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/7 "2017-07-27T01:49:59Z")
What the civil war settled was that if you secede, don’t fire on union soldiers. Lincoln was careful not to initiate hostilities. In fact, he made it clear that the resupply ship he sent to Fort Sumter was not there to fire on the secessionists, but the hotheads among the latter were rarin’ to fight. This leads to a speculation: what would have happened if the south hadn’t started a war. I could picture a south continuing as a de facto country until it finally got recognized as de jure. Of course, the fugitive slave law would have been rescinded. The possibilities would make for an interesting alternate history novel. CA is not going to secede in any case. They might not get any water. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/8 "2017-07-27T01:56:13Z")
If they really want to secede, the way to go would be to call for a Constitutional Convention with secession as the stated purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/9 "2017-07-27T02:03:54Z")
I’d love to see the United State sell California to Mexico. Just think - for starters, a statue of the Virgin Mary on every street corner! ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/10 "2017-07-27T02:05:16Z")
I’ve often wondered what would have happened if a US territory had voted against statehood? Hypothetically, perhaps the Mormons were opposed to statehood. Would it have independent status similar to Puerto Rico? It never happened. Every territory eagerly wanted statehood. Even Texas, a independent country for ten years. Still wanted statehood. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/11 "2017-07-27T03:36:11Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > I’d love to see the United State sell California to Mexico. Just think - for starters, a statue of the Virgin Mary on every street corner! You do know that Mexico’s constitution is officially anti-religious, right? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/12 "2017-07-27T03:59:57Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > You do know that Mexico’s constitution is officially anti-religious, right? Its not anti-religious. Its agnostic on the topic. Its anti Catholic controlling the educational system. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/13 "2017-07-27T13:48:30Z")
As a Californian, I initially supported opening up the discussion, in the abstract. As the story goes - California, if it were an independent country, would be the world’s 7th largest economy. We’ve got the agriculture, but would need to work out the water access, etc. Politically, it is a majority progressive state, which suits me. And so on… HOWEVER, as I read more about it, I became aware that the CalExit movement is reputedly being driven as a project by Russia, which I interpret as part of their larger strategy to destabilize the US. [The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/is-russia-behind-a-secession-effort-in-california/517890/) So, taking that into consideration, no thanks. Oh, and like **SpoilerVirgin** , I am not a fan of the initiative process in California. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/14 "2017-07-27T13:54:47Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > California, if it were an independent country, would be the world’s 7th largest economy. We’ve got the agriculture, but would need to work out the water access, etc. Politically, it is a majority progressive state, which suits me. If California seceded from the USA, what’s to stop the non-progressive, agricultural regions from seceding from California? Big cities are progressive, but boondocks seldom are. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/15 "2017-07-27T14:07:33Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > If California seceded from the USA, what’s to stop the non-progressive, agricultural regions from seceding from California? Big cities are progressive, but boondocks seldom are. Well, one model would be that Country California would then divide up into States, which would accommodate the different regional cohorts. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/16 "2017-07-27T14:20:40Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > HOWEVER, as I read more about it, I became aware that the CalExit movement is reputedly being driven as a project by Russia, which I interpret as part of their larger strategy to destabilize the US. Dunno, I’ve read right-wing crazies aver China is behind it. Still, Russians settled California before any Americans did. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/17 "2017-07-27T14:21:23Z")
[QUOTE=President Trump] We’re gonna need a bigger wall [/QUOTE] **not a real quote** ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/18 "2017-07-27T14:21:27Z")
Even if the vote is successful, remember that only the California AG can defend the initiative in court against the inevitable constitutional challenge. Would that office choose to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/19 "2017-07-27T14:23:41Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > You do know that Mexico’s constitution is officially anti-religious, right? I thought they phased out the anti-religious stance in the early 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185/20 "2017-07-27T14:36:30Z")
Further information on the Russian backing at the conservative **[National Review](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/446783/yes-california-independence-campaign-has-russian-backing-deserves-defeat)**. In essence the Russian Connection is that 30-yr-old Republican Louis Marinelli who runs the campaign left to attend a Russian university, where he teaches EASL. He is from Buffalo NY. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-ag-issued-an-official-ballot-measure-title-to-secede-from-us/792185.md?page=2)