# CA city bills POTUS for police overtime due to fundraising event - Should Obama pay this bill? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 27, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280 "2012-05-27T21:29:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/1 "2012-05-27T21:29:30Z")
Story here [You Have to Pay for That’: California City Bills Obama $35K After Campaign Fundraiser](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/you-have-to-pay-for-that-california-city-bills-obama-35k-after-campaign-fundraiser/) > [@](#): > > With California’s current deficit woes, it has seemingly become difficult to justify the tens of thousands of dollars it can cost the taxpayer in extra security measures for Obama’s campaign stops. > > That is why, according to the Los Angeles Times, Newport Beach has billed the president $35,043.04. > > The L.A. Times continues: > > City Manager Dave Kiff said the invoice was his idea. > > “I think it is appropriate to treat it like a private event — if another private event that large and which required that much police presence occurred, we would bill the event sponsor,” he said in an email. “If the president was here on presidential business, we likely would not have billed for that.” > > The expenses include costs for a police lieutenant, sergeant, two officers, a reserve officer, a senior dispatch officer, a community service officer plus overtime. Another story on same topic here - > **[Newport Beach Slaps Obama Campaign With A $35,000 Bill](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/obama-bill-newport-beach_n_1547914)** > > Newport Beach Slaps Obama Campaign With A $35,000 Bill ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/2 "2012-05-27T21:38:52Z")
Of course he should, the state wouldn’t have had the expense otherwise and he was there for a self-serving purpose not for an event related to his duties as president. What arguments are there that he shouldn’t? I’m actually surprised this is news: I figured that both he and Romney were regularly charged for the extra security costs they cause locations they fundraiser in. Does this mean places normally get saddled with bills related to campaigning then? ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/3 "2012-05-27T21:48:14Z")
I too feel like he should pay since it was not presidential business that incurred the expenses. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/4 "2012-05-27T21:51:37Z")
I’d be interested to know what the standard procedure is here. However, the proper thing would be for the POTUS to pay for expenses he causes local communities to incur related to his campaigning or fundraising activity. Same goes for Romney’s campaign. For some big sporting events or concerts I know that uniformed police are around to help direct traffic and such before and after the event. Do cities customarily just eat that expense? Although that’s really not the same thing since the municipality benefits from those sort of events, private fundraisers don’t really bring that much money if any into local businesses or do anything for the taxpayers there, and just impose a large expense on their police departments. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/5 "2012-05-27T21:55:20Z")
I agree that the campaign should pay, if, either that’s the usual practice, or if it is not, the city told them in advance that they would need to do so. But if it’s not customary to charge the campaign, and the city didn’t tell the campaign in advance that it would charge for this, then it’s not appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/6 "2012-05-27T22:17:24Z")
No. If the police can bill people for events that the police choose to send bills to, then they can send bills to those holding free speech events and shut down that free speech. Fundraising for politics is part of free speech. This is just another punishment for using free speech rights. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/7 "2012-05-27T22:44:06Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > No. If the police can bill people for events that the police choose to send bills to, then they can send bills to those holding free speech events and shut down that free speech. Fundraising for politics is part of free speech. This is just another punishment for using free speech rights. Your objection doesn’t really make sense because they’re talking about billing an organization that made several million dollars off of the event. This is one of those situations where talking in generalities is not useful, I don’t think anyone believes police should get to charge anyone doing stuff in public that might cause some police overtime, so that’s a total non-sequitur. FWIW the President reimburses the government for lots of stuff as a matter of course, and they always have. It’s not uncommon at all for various personal perks or benefits the First Family receives to be paid for by the First Family’s private funds. Campaigning also is generally not “gratis”, as the incumbent President reimburses the government for things like Air Force One trips related solely to campaigning. Your concerns are really unfounded because additionally, a citizen oriented “gathering” for example would not really have anyone you’d be able to bill in the first place. What would the police do, somehow track down everyone who was at a citizen event and charge them a portion of the costs? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/8 "2012-05-27T23:19:07Z")
It’s odd that you are generally against making people and corporations that are making tons of money foot their bills in fees and taxes, but here, where it is entirely political speech and the behavior of the police entirely optional, you are for it. Oh, wait, “odd” isn’t the word. The word is hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![umkay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/43a26b/32.png) [@umkay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umkay)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/9 "2012-05-27T23:33:25Z")
Hahahaha! Sorry, this is my home region, and you’d be hard-pressed to find a more faithful bulwark of the Republican party anywhere in California. Or a more affluent area. So it strikes me as being just a _smidge_ political, if-you-know-what-I-mean… ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/10 "2012-05-27T23:54:14Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > It’s odd that you are generally against making people and corporations that are making tons of money foot their bills in fees and taxes, but here, where it is entirely political speech and the behavior of the police entirely optional, you are for it. > > Oh, wait, “odd” isn’t the word. The word is hypocritical. I love that you’re making an argument I’ve never made and then calling me a hypocrite for having made it. I’ve never had any problem with people paying taxes. You’re confusing anyone who isn’t a Democrat with some Cato Society card-carrying lunatic and/or a member of the Tea Party. That’s your problem, not mine. I’ve always been on the side of **sound fiscal policy** which necessitates the paying of taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/11 "2012-05-28T01:30:18Z")
So they send him a bill and he refuses to pay. What’s the next step; small claims court? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/12 "2012-05-28T01:59:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Martin Hyde > 11-21-2010, 04:00 PM > I had to check to make sure this thread was started in 2010. Buffet has been saying this stuff for years. As a conservative, I agree with Buffet on this. Right now many of the super wealthy are paying something like 15% of their yearly income in tax, because of how the tax code is structured (I’ll apologize for being off the cuff on the percentage, I know it is around that level.) > > Now, agreeing with the concept of “the rich should pay more than they are” isn’t the same thing as saying “the top marginal rate needs to go up.” To me it’s more about finding a way to actually get the rich to pay ~35% of their actual yearly income in taxes. Historically even with the top marginal rate being like 90%, the rich have kept ~80% or more of their pre-tax income through loop holes that historically we’ve never found a way to eliminate entirely. > > I’ll also say that if something is good fiscal or social policy then it is good fiscal or social policy. … So you kinda do support a flat tax, not taking those on ability to pay more because they are raking in more. Kinda the opposite of what you said about he can afford it. So your opinion when it is Obama is kind of different when it is everyone else. That isn’t odd. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/13 "2012-05-28T02:03:04Z")
This thread brings up an interesting question. Even if the President of the United States was in California on Federal business, why should the state have to foot any part of the bill? ---
**Author:** ![umkay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/43a26b/32.png) [@umkay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umkay)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/14 "2012-05-28T02:09:22Z")
> [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](#): > > So they send him a bill and he refuses to pay. What’s the next step; small claims court? I, for one, would like to see this handled by [Judge Marilyn Milian](http://peoplescourt.warnerbros.com/). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/15 "2012-05-28T04:04:21Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > This thread brings up an interesting question. Even if the President of the United States was in California on Federal business, why should the state have to foot any part of the bill? Protecting citizens is the job of the police and of the State of California. They certainly could legally choose to deploy their officers doing other things. Just ask Dallas how that goes. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/16 "2012-05-28T05:04:08Z")
Has this always been standard proceedure with this city? (no) Did the city tell them _before_ or _after_ the event? What bugs me is; There sure are a lot of ‘firsts’ for this President. And I don’t mean that in a good way: First with the birth certificate. First president that will have voter restriction laws in many states. First with the Debt ceiling bull shit… and other stuff that I’m sure is slipping my mind right now. Yes, he should pay the bill, but still… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/17 "2012-05-28T07:23:44Z")
He should only pay the bill if is was agreed upon before the visit. 7 officers over time is 35k? I’d like to see some more details on this bill. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/18 "2012-05-28T07:27:15Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > He should only pay the bill if is was agreed upon before the visit. > > 7 officers over time is 35k? I’d like to see some more details on this bill. The video in my first link has some pics of the invoice breakouts. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/19 "2012-05-28T13:23:11Z")
The daily cost? Those officers would have been on normal duty. So no to that. They are padding the bill. This is complete bullshit and that city should be ashamed of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280/20 "2012-05-28T14:24:17Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > The daily cost? Those officers would have been on normal duty. So no to that. They are padding the bill. Agreed. If the city had to incur extraordinary expenses (overtime, cancelled leave, equipment getting damaged) that I can see. But “daily cost” (compensation for personnel and depreciation on the equipment) is regular budget. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-city-bills-potus-for-police-overtime-due-to-fundraising-event-should-obama-pay-this-bill/623280.md?page=2)