# CA "Clean Environment" Initiative **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 2, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443 "2018-05-02T00:29:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/1 "2018-05-02T00:29:47Z")
The Office of the Sec State of California has approved for signature gathering [an initiative with this summary](https://ballotpedia.org/California_%22Clean_Environment%22_Initiative_(2016)): _Prohibits genetically engineered plants and animals and over 300 listed substances from being introduced or released into the environment. Creates a new state entity to regulate environmental activities, modify or stop projects having pollution and radiation impacts, and test and approve substances before they are introduced into the environment. Prohibits treatment of water with fluoride or chlorine. Eliminates vaccination as a prerequisite for attendance at schools and daycare facilities. Provides criminal and civil liability for violations, with no statute of limitations._ One of the impacts this would have would be to outlaw “smart meters” – electric meters that record time-based usage for variable-rate schedules – because they use WiFi (“radiation”). Before you get nightmares thinking about this, the state constitution limits an initiative to one subject (Article II §8 [d]), so the state is not even allowed to put this on the ballot. I am not clear why the Sec State’s office even approved it for the signature phase. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/2 "2018-05-02T00:47:42Z")
Is there any legal definition of what a “subject” is? If the topic can be as broad as “crackpot woo” then I think the proposition is fine. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/3 "2018-05-02T00:57:34Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > . . . I am not clear why the Sec State’s office even approved it for the signature phase. If I had to guess, I’d surmise that it’s to save work, and therefore money. It means that staff time will only be spent on initiatives that have gathered enough signatures and not on the potentially hundreds of initiatives that haven’t and won’t. As to the initiative in question, it sounds like someone’s having a mystic purity-gasm. I’m sure they’re enjoying themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/4 "2018-05-02T19:10:36Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > As to the initiative in question, it sounds like someone’s having a mystic purity-gasm. I’m sure they’re enjoying themselves. Californians sense my power and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid Californians, Mandrake. But I do deny them my essence. Yours in good health, thru the purity of essence of our precious bodily fluids, General Jack D. Ripper ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/5 "2018-05-02T20:56:26Z")
_facepalm_ I love my state, and the people in it. But some of the reputation we’ve got for kookery is legitimate. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/6 "2018-05-02T22:39:49Z")
It’s the granola state: Fruit, flakes, and nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/7 "2018-05-02T22:47:02Z")
At least we’re not Florida! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/8 "2018-05-02T23:20:25Z")
I just noticed that my link to the initiative in in error: it goes to a nearly identical failed effort from two years ago. [The correct one is here](https://ballotpedia.org/California_Environment_Board_and_Environment,_GMOs,_Nanoparticles,_and_Vaccine_Policies_Initiative_(2018)), and I note that it prohibits anything related to nuclear power from entering the state (except, I would guess, the electricity from out-of-state nuclear plants). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/9 "2018-05-02T23:24:12Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > _facepalm_ > > I love my state, and the people in it. But some of the reputation we’ve got for kookery is legitimate. They don’t even have the signatures yet, so it’s just a few crazies right now. Even if they do get enough signatures, it’s a small percentage of the whole state. I would not hold this up as anything emblematic of our wonderful state. I love it here, kooks and all! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/10 "2018-05-03T22:20:48Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I just noticed that my link to the initiative in in error: it goes to a nearly identical failed effort from two years ago. [The correct one is here](https://ballotpedia.org/California_Environment_Board_and_Environment,_GMOs,_Nanoparticles,_and_Vaccine_Policies_Initiative_(2018)), and I note that it prohibits anything related to nuclear power from entering the state (except, I would guess, the electricity from out-of-state nuclear plants). So, sunshine would be illegal? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/11 "2018-05-05T19:38:26Z")
As would be 90+% of the food we eat, since the initiative bans all “genetically-modified” plants and animals. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/12 "2018-05-05T19:52:37Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > So, sunshine would be illegal? Microwave ovens and X ray machines, too, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/13 "2018-05-05T20:00:11Z")
Well, the radiation generated by microwave ovens and x-ray machines is almost always contained to a localized area and does not leak into the environment. OTOH, if I were flying to Eureka, being constrained to VFR would be problematic. Also, cellphones. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/14 "2018-05-05T21:07:09Z")
Look, this is a stupid initiative- stupid enough to not require completely misrepresenting it to mock it. It’s not making pollution or radiation illegal, it calls for the creation of a state entity to regulate, moddify or stop projects that would cause radiation or pollution. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/15 "2018-05-05T21:29:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s the granola state: Fruit, flakes, and nuts. As a California fruit, may I request that we put away this old chestnut permanently? I think it has long since passed it’s half-life of funny. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/16 "2018-05-05T21:54:23Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Look, this is a stupid initiative- stupid enough to not require completely misrepresenting it to mock it. It’s not making pollution or radiation illegal, it calls for the creation of a state entity to regulate, moddify or stop projects that would cause radiation or pollution. It also allows lawsuits for “uninvited exposure to radiation,” meaning I could sue anybody with a cell phone within a given distance. And by my reading, it also bans the sale of alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/17 "2018-05-05T23:21:54Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > It also allows lawsuits for “uninvited exposure to radiation,” meaning I could sue anybody with a cell phone within a given distance. Out of curiosity, what’s stopping you from suing someone for that currently? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/18 "2018-05-05T23:53:28Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Out of curiosity, what’s stopping you from suing someone for that currently? You could, and likely get laughed out of court. But once the idea is formalized into law, and given options that include _criminal prosecution_ for cell phones, it becomes a lot more likely. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/19 "2018-05-06T00:40:05Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > As a California fruit, may I request that we put away this old chestnut permanently? I think it has long since passed it’s half-life of funny. We must be doing something right. We have an economy greater than all but five **nations** in the world. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-clean-environment-initiative/813443/20 "2018-05-07T00:14:47Z")
Take it from someone who cuts a check every pay period to the Franchise Tax Board (California’s version of the IRS) - that’s nothing compared to some of the things that have made the “petition stage.” For example, at one point, there was a petition for an initiative to ban shellfish; it was in response to an attempted initiative (struck down by the courts before petitions could be circulated) to make sodomy a crime punishable by “death by bullets” (since eating shellfish and homosexual sex are both “banned” in the Book of Leviticus). [Link to California’s initiative page, including a list of all initiatives](http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ballot-measures/initiative-and-referendum-status/) (or “propositions,” as we call them) in various stages, from petition state to qualified (or failed to qualify) for the ballot.