# CA single-payer costs **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-single-payer-costs/787240 "2017-05-22T22:07:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-single-payer-costs/787240/61 "2017-06-04T07:08:14Z")
You have to count fraud as overhead. > **[PolitiFact - Medicare fraud rate is 8 to 10 percent, says Roskam of Illinois](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2013/jun/17/peter-roskam/rep-roskam-says-medicare-fraud-rate-8-10-percent/)** > > Fraud by its very nature tries to hide from view. So when Rep. Peter Roskam, R-Ill., talked about how big the problem is Medicare’s overhead when including fraud is 2 to 3 times that of private insurers. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-single-payer-costs/787240/62 "2017-06-04T08:14:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You have to count fraud as overhead. > > [PolitiFact | Medicare fraud rate is 8 to 10 percent, says Roskam of Illinois](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jun/17/peter-roskam/rep-roskam-says-medicare-fraud-rate-8-10-percent/) > > Medicare’s overhead when including fraud is 2 to 3 times that of private insurers. Really? Because your link says > [@](#): > > The JAMA article doesn’t stop at Medicare and Medicaid. It also looks at fraud in the health care sector as a whole, both public and private. The fraud rates don’t change much when the private sector is included. ---
**Author:** ![race\_to\_the\_bottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c4cdca/32.png) [@race\_to\_the\_bottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/race_to_the_bottom)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-single-payer-costs/787240/63 "2017-06-04T15:55:48Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The insurance marketplace is a nightmare for healthcare providers. There is one corner of the expense picture that is poorly calculated. If the state is the primary or sole payer, doctors and hospitals can cut back drastically on this expense. Amen to all that. My dentist has someone who seems to work full time dealing with insurance issues. I get calls, “Your insurance won’t pay this, or your insurance company blah, blah, blah.” It is the same in medical offices. I’ve seen numbers, but don’t have them handy. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-single-payer-costs/787240/64 "2017-06-05T03:20:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As for malpractice, single payer systems don’t allow massive malpractice suits. Not so in Canada. What’s different is that there is _no need_ to sue for the cost of future medical care, if needed to repair the medical malpractice. The cost of future medical care will be paid by the medicare system, so the victim of medical malpractice doesn’t have any need to sue for it. If you’re looking at loss of income/job because of the medical malpractice, or the cost of future care not covered by medicare (e.g. - adaptations to one’s home, or future cost of living in a facility for a really serious malpractice), the victim of the malpractice can certainly sue for that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-single-payer-costs/787240/65 "2017-06-05T12:05:34Z")
And “pain and suffering”, plus punitive damages? That’s where the big numbers come in in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-single-payer-costs/787240/66 "2017-06-05T12:15:06Z")
Yes, you can sue for pain and suffering, and for punitive damages. The tests for those categories are likely stricter than in the US (just my general impression), but that’s always been the case. It’s not tied in any way to medicare (i.e. - there’s no legislation on these issues passed in relation to our health care system. It’s common law, inherited from England and developed by the Canadian courts.) ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-single-payer-costs/787240/67 "2017-06-13T01:25:17Z")
I didn’t read every reply in this thread, but has anyone mentioned that single payer may only cost $331 billion, not $400 billion when factoring in savings from single payer? > **[California’s single-payer bill could save billions, new report states](https://www.sierrasun.com/news/californias-single-payer-bill-could-save-billions-new-report-states/)** > > California’s proposed single-payer health care billcould save the state up to $30 billion per year, while providing universal health care to all California residents with no deductibles, co-pays or premiums, according to a new economic... > [@](#): > > In order to provide high-quality health care to all California residents under the current system’s model, the state would have to increase overall spending on health care by 9.6 percent for a total cost of $404.1 billion, according to Pollin’s study. That figure is in line with the Senate Appropriations Committee’s cost analysis, announced May 22, which projected SB-562 would cost the state $400 billion. > > But when the savings a single-payer system would create are included, advocates say, the overall costs of the full-coverage system would be about 10 percent less than the existing system, the study estimates, and would therefore cost $331 billion. > > A combination of state and federal funds already pays for $225 billion of California’s health care costs, according to Pollin’s economic analysis. The remaining $106 billion needed to foot the projected $331 billion price tag would be funded by a 2.3 percent sales tax and a 2.3 percent tax on gross receipts for businesses. A business that makes less than $2 million annually would be exempt from the tax, however. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-single-payer-costs/787240/68 "2017-06-13T16:43:08Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I didn’t read every reply in this thread, but has anyone mentioned that single payer may only cost $331 billion, not $400 billion when factoring in savings from single payer? “_Only_”???:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-single-payer-costs/787240/69 "2017-06-13T16:55:50Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I didn’t read every reply in this thread, but has anyone mentioned that single payer may only cost $331 billion, not $400 billion when factoring in savings from single payer? > > [California’s single-payer bill could save billions, new report states | SierraSun.com](http://www.sierrasun.com/news/californias-single-payer-bill-could-save-billions-new-report-states/) Wait…isn’t the current annual budget for California only something like $90 billion a year?? Are you talking about adding an additional $331 billion (or $400 billion or whatever)?? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-single-payer-costs/787240/70 "2017-06-13T17:10:01Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Wait…isn’t the current annual budget for California only something like $90 billion a year?? Are you talking about adding an additional $331 billion (or $400 billion or whatever)?? :eek: :smack: That should have been (or $106 billion or whatever). Posting from an iPad just sucks sometimes. I shouldn’t do drive by posts… ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-single-payer-costs/787240/71 "2017-06-13T17:29:13Z")
Good luck getting California voters to agree on a 2.3% tax on anything, let alone _everything._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ca-single-payer-costs/787240.md?page=3)