# Cable TV De-Scramblers
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [October 22, 1999, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116 "1999-10-22T23:20:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@SuperNerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNerd)
#### Post date: [October 27, 1999, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/41 "1999-10-27T23:42:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The TDR only works on cable systems that **REQUIRE** a cable box
At the risk of being accused of beating this one to death: gotcha, understand. So if you’re paying for a box and they see it, you’re fine. If you’re not and they don’t see one, also fine. If you’re not and they DO see one, you’re, um, you know. Subject to harrassment or something. Just to be complete, if you’re paying for the box and they don’t see one? I’ll leave this one dangling.
My point (one of them anyway) was that if you put in a distribution amp and you’re not paying for the box: they know you’re not paying, they don’t see the box, everyone is happy. Granted, they see the distribution amp, but this is a completely legal device (and fairly mandatory in my last house - the signal quality was pretty bad). The bad scenario is they call and ask to inspect something, you hide the bootleg box and show them the amp. They leave, you put the box back into service. Worst case is they show up unannounced and try to get in. My advice would be to sic the dogs on them.
This is probably a good time to point out that I’ve got middle of the line cable (‘tier 3’ out of a possible 5), I pay the bills, I _do not_ have any pay channels and I could care less. I can spend two bucks to rent a movie and watch it whenever I want. And pay the extra two bucks late charges because I can never get them back on time.
---
### Author:  [@SuperNerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNerd)
#### Post date: [October 28, 1999, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/42 "1999-10-28T00:14:00Z")
Well, sheesh. Something was bugging me, so I went back up to the top of the thread, and noticed that Therealbubba, early on, had said:
> [@](#):
>
> We have a signal amplifier that I am told acts as a buffer between me and the company. … I have several friends that have had them for years like us, and nobody has been busted yet.
Okay, I give up now - if you want me, I’ll be looking at traffic in the Pit.
---
### Author:  [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)
#### Post date: [October 28, 1999, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/43 "1999-10-28T02:28:00Z")
I agree TOTALLY with Manhatten. Theft if intellectual property is still theft. The fact that no physical harm is done is not relevant.
I’m shocked that this is SO widespread. As a cameraman on films and television shows, I am more than well versed in what it takes to produce quality work. It ain’t cheap, and it ain’t easy. You want to see “Star Wars:Episode 1” for free, because you are stealing the signal? Then why not teach your kids to sneak into the movies, too? There is no difference at all.
Cartooniverse
"If you want to kiss the sky you’d better learn how to kneel "
---
### Author:  [@RoboDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoboDude)
#### Post date: [October 28, 1999, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/44 "1999-10-28T03:32:00Z")
I’ve seen ads for plans for various types of homemade descramblers. Does anyone know anything about them?
---
### Author:  [@AuraSeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuraSeer)
#### Post date: [October 28, 1999, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/45 "1999-10-28T04:08:00Z")
Yes.
But don’t expect to just be handed an instruction manual on how to do it. Theft of cable service is illegal, so giving instructions on it would violate the SDMB regulations; that post or this whole thread would then be removed, and the person posting those instructions would be warned (or perhaps even banned).
Of course, someone might post a link to a website explaining the process. But as a rule, people are willing to pay for instructions on this topic, so the wise ones are loathe to give their knowledge away for free.
* * *
Laugh hard; it’s a long way to the bank.
---
### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [October 28, 1999, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/46 "1999-10-28T09:16:00Z")
On a slightly different topic, I have a moral dilemma for you guys to solve.
I’m in Canada, and I’d like to put up a DSS satellite dish. What I want to get is HBO, Cinemax, etc. Unfortunately, the Canadian government won’t let these services sell in Canada, because they are protecting ‘Canadian Culture’. I don’t recognize the legitimacy of this law, because I don’t think the government should be able to control what I see, read, etc.
However, I have no way to pay for the DSS service, because HBO etc won’t accept a Canadian subscriber. Am I morally justified in setting up a bootleg satellite receiver?
Basically, I have been offered one of these systems for free because of work I did for someone, but I refused on moral grounds. But I’m having second thoughts, because it infuriates me that the government won’t let me purchase a service. Complicating the matter is the fact that I’m sure a lot of programming on a U.S. DSS system is being broadcast for a national audience only, and the DSS distributor may not have international rights to the material.
I’m strongly opposed to intellectual theft, and I would never own a cable descrambler to steal local service (I’ve been offered one of those as well). But this is slightly different. I’m ‘stealing’ a product that is not for sale.
I’d appreciate any opinions you guys might have about this.
---
### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [October 28, 1999, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/47 "1999-10-28T09:20:00Z")
Back to detecting illegal descramblers - I’m not that familiar with the technical means to descramble cable signals, but if there are local oscillators in the electronics they may be detectable from outside the house. If there is a computer chip that operates at a certain speed, that may be detectable from outside the house, because it will generate some RF noise at that frequency.
I’m skeptical about a TDR being able to tell them much of anything, especially if there are some distribution amps in series (even running the cable in and out of your VCR may isolate the signal past that point, or through your stereo receiver if it has video in/out).
---
### Author:  [@JoeyBlades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyBlades)
#### Post date: [October 28, 1999, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/48 "1999-10-28T13:53:00Z")
dhanson,
I’m with you that the Canandian government should not be censoring your viewing behaviors, but I’m curious… are there other legal satellite systems in Canada with the same form factor of a DSS dish? If not, I don’t see how you could avoid detection. DSS receivers require line of sight to the satellite, which means your dish is going to be in plain view for all of your nosey neighbors to see and they might just feel a compunction to report you. Also, you still have to pay for a subscriber service and they may not mail your bill to a Canadian address.
---
### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [October 28, 1999, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/49 "1999-10-28T15:10:00Z")
Canada has its own DSS system, but it sucks and the content is controlled by Canadian content regulations. But the dishes look exactly the same.
As for subscribing, the only way you used to be able to do it was to rent a mailbox in the U.S. and use that as your mailing address, because the Canadian Government put pressure on the U.S. DSS companies to not allow Canadians to subscribe. Now they’ve pressured them into checking for these border-area postal boxes or something. I’d probably be looking at getting a black-market descrambler. By the way, they aren’t illegal in Canada. I’d be breaking no laws, since by Canadian law it’s not theft to grab these signals because they aren’t a product available in Canada. So it’s not a legal issue. It may still be morally wrong, though, which is my dilemma.
---
### Author:  [@RoboDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoboDude)
#### Post date: [November 1, 1999, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/50 "1999-11-01T15:29:00Z")
Let’s see… You’re recieving something for free that the company won’t let you buy because the government pressured them to stop letting people sidestep a truly perverted law.
I say go for it!
---
### Author:  [@Bobby\_O](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobby_O)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2000, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/51 "2000-01-18T19:16:00Z")
Dragging up an old post. I had an illegal cable set up for years in Brooklyn, NY. I moved several times and then out of the state. Several questions: Do different boxes work in different places or can you use any box anywhere? For instance, a General Instruments box came with the service, can you use a Scientific Atlanta box instead (legal or illegal)?
One day I came home and the cable was off. I took apart the box and noticed that it looked rewired, but not rechipped. True? What are the different ways that these boxes are modified?
It turns out that the cable company had come and cut the physical cable line near the juction box, so I ran a new coax into my apartment; would that cause more legal problems for me? I guess so, but what is the charge, vandalism?
Last question, why would cable installers care if you had an illegal set up? It seems to me that they only care about their business, which is installing cable.
---
### Author:  [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2000, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/52 "2000-01-18T21:22:00Z")
**Bobby O** :
> [@](#):
>
> Last question, why would cable installers care if you had an illegal set up? It seems to me that they only care about their business, which is installing cable.
You’re kidding, right? The cable company charges you a small fee to install, but then they send you a bill every month for the service. They care because if you weren’t getting cable illegaly, you’d likely be buying it from them. That’s lost revenue, and a good deal of it. I’m not saying that stealing cable is immoral, but the cable companies do care quite a bit because there’s a lot of money at stake. There’s also the (weaker) argument that stealing cable degrades the signal for paying customers. I’m not sure how that would work.
COMPLETE CHANGE OF SUBJECT AHEAD:
**Manhattan** said a while ago:
> [@](#):
>
> I can at least add that the Anti-Theft Cable Task Force will have a web site in early December. If anybody wants the url, bring this thread to the top on about Dec. 10 and I’ll post it.
Has this site gone up? I’ll do a search, but if you could post a link, that’d be swell.
---
### Author:  [@Bobby\_O](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobby_O)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2000, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/53 "2000-01-18T21:32:00Z")
stolichnaya:
I understand why the cable companies don’t want you to steal, but everywhere I’ve lived, the installers are different companies than the cable providers, they’re independent contractors.
Even if they are the same company, unless they get a bounty for finding bad boxes, they don’t seem like the type to really care. In college, we could pay the installer a little extra on the side and he/she would “hook us up” a la Jim Carrey and Ben Stiller in “The Cable Guy”.
---
### Author:  [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2000, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/54 "2000-01-18T21:39:00Z")
My humblest apoologies. An important distinction.
---
### Author:  [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2000, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/55 "2000-01-18T21:41:00Z")
And a_apologies_ also, if you’re interested. My hands are quite difficult to control today.
---
### Author:  [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2000, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/56 "2000-01-18T21:42:00Z")
AAUUUGHHH!!!
---
### Author:  [@eggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eggo)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2000, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/57 "2000-01-18T22:06:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Originally posted by Primal:
>
> Dandmb50, I have one of those little “computer boxes” that you saw the cable guy attach to the line. All it basically is is a signal meter. It tests the amount of signal and interference that you are getting. If the signal level isn’t high enough, your picture will look like shit and you won’t be happy. On the other hand, if it’s too high, it will in essence scramble itself ( a condition know as cross-modification, or cross-mod for short). He was most likely just checking to make sure that you had enough rf.
so you mean, if you can drop the signal enough, you will unscramble the pay channels? i could deal with a crappy signal if i got them for free. is there more to it or is it just signal strength?
eggo
---
### Author:  [@torq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torq)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2000, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/58 "2000-01-18T22:19:00Z")
No, dropping the signal will not unscramble the pay channels. If the signal is too high, all the channels will look “scrambled”, but for somewhat different reasons.
---
### Author:  [@WhiteNight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhiteNight)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2000, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/59 "2000-01-19T12:59:00Z")
Manhattan/Cartooniverse:
Wrongo. Descrambling a signal is not theft, not is copyright violation. Theft is a specific crime. You can feel bad about IP violations if you want, but calling them theft is outright lying.
You got to love it when people say ‘you can do it, but you’re just rationalizing’ and everyone else is suppose to shutup. How about, you can avoid doing it if you wish, but you’re just rationalizing a controlling law into something that you can feel good about obeying? Don’t like it? Of course not, either way you look at it, it’s crap.
The whole point about being a thinking being is being able to decide what to do, if you never question a law, just because it’s a law, congrats, you’re candidate #1 for supporting an oppressive dictator.
And don’t go telling me it’s just the rationalization of a thief. The cable room in my building can be opened with a butter knife, and when I was in there watching my line be installed, I saw how filters were applied. I could, if I wanted, have free extended cable. I don’t, and it’s not for fear of the law.
Why don’t you go equate traffic violations to speeding, you’d be wrong, but that doesn’t seem to stop you.
dhanson:
As far as I can see, there are no laws stopping you from using a DSS dish, just company regulations, and various legal reasons _they_ can’t sell it to you. But, having the dish, and using it, shouldn’t be illegal. If they’re checking for PO boxes, go to one of the stores that uses Apt/Suite #s for their boxes.
Technical stuff:
A TDR could detect different equipment, and theoretically, they could detect a signature from various equipment. But, I don’t think a TDR would be used, being a specific device used to find cable breaks. What they’d find is that the signal stopped some distance inside your house.
As for the cable company spying on you with a tempest device… I wouldn’t be suprised if you could sue them for it, there have to be a few laws violated by monitoring what people are doing like that.
And, am I the only one who didn’t sign an agreement when getting either cable or phone service? They hooked both with only my landlord here. I guess because it doesn’t really cost them anything (asside from one month of potential long distance calls) to provide the service, they’re willing to take the risk of losing a month of service, especially because they know I’ll very likely be a long-term customer (How many people don’t have a phone?)
But, it means I didn’t sign anything agreeing to let them inspect the equipment, or giving them any right to claim access to my house.
I did sign something when getting the cable modem, but that was all to do with the internet service, and the cable modem. For instance, I’m technically not allowed to move the cable modem, if I want it on the other side of the desk, I have to call them.
Watching the install of that was funny, I no longer have any worry that they could detect non-standard wiring, unless you managed to wire the cable into a ham radio or something.
---
### Author:  [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2000, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116/60 "2000-01-19T14:07:00Z")
Isn’t it safer to descramble satellite tv because the dish can’t send the signal up that you are hooked up?
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116.md?page=2)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cable-tv-de-scramblers/10116.md?page=4)