# Café Society
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [September 15, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607 "2004-09-15T22:32:31Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/1 "2004-09-15T22:32:31Z")
In the interests of fighting ignorance and all that, should it not be Café Society and not Cafe Society?
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### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2004, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/2 "2004-09-15T22:44:16Z")
If we wanted to mix two languages, then sure…
English doesn’t have accents. ‘Cafe’ in English is obviously derived directly from French. But it’s not French when it’s English. Any more than we should expect the French to pronounce ‘le weekend’ as ‘_the_ weekend’.
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### Author:  [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/3 "2004-09-15T23:00:11Z")
As I I look in my dictionary there is an entry for café, but no entry for cafe. I use accented letters in my English writing; I do not believe that I am breaking any grammatical rules.
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### Author:  [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/4 "2004-09-15T23:03:24Z")
> [@InvidiousCourgette](#):
>
> As I I look in my dictionary there is an entry for café, but no entry for cafe. I use accented letters in my English writing; I do not believe that I am breaking any grammatical rules.
My name has an accent! What would I do without it? 😉
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### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2004, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/5 "2004-09-15T23:22:31Z")
> [@InvidiousCourgette](#):
>
> As I I look in my dictionary there is an entry for café, but no entry for cafe. I use accented letters in my English writing; I do not believe that I am breaking any grammatical rules.
Depends on your dictionary, as to whether the dictionary definition proves anything.
But using accents in English is fundamentally unnecessary - the language has evolved to not need them. Using them for isolated adopted words has no purpose - the word will be either understood or not understood, regardless of the accents. And in any case, if you want to follow the logic through, you should insist on the correct _pronunciation_ of café.
Or am I just being naïve?
> [@Duderdude2](#):
>
> My name has an accent! What would I do without it? 😉
My apologies, Ďǔđèŗđǜđę2. 😃 😃
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### Author:  [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/6 "2004-09-15T23:32:46Z")
> [@InvidiousCourgette](#):
>
> As I I look in my dictionary there is an entry for café, but no entry for cafe. I use accented letters in my English writing; I do not believe that I am breaking any grammatical rules.
Most of us are using a standard US keyboard. There’s no key for an accented “e” and most people don’t know what key combination would produce one. When I type cafe into my on-line dictionary it sees no difference between cafe and café.
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### Author:  [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2004, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/7 "2004-09-16T00:53:18Z")
> [@levdrakon](#):
>
> Most of us are using a standard US keyboard. There’s no key for an accented “e” and most people don’t know what key combination would produce one. When I type cafe into my on-line dictionary it sees no difference between cafe and café.
On a Mac, hold down the option key and press e, then release both and press e again.
In Windows, it’s Alt+130. I think you have to type the numbers on the number pad.
I also agree that “cafe” is prefectly acceptible in English. But “café” looks more chic. 🙂
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### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/8 "2004-09-16T01:03:40Z")
> [@Podkayne](#):
>
> In Windows, it’s Alt+130. I think you have to type the numbers on the number pad.
In many Windows apps, it’s ctrl+’ followed by e. (The same for other marks, such as ctrl+@ - a or ctrl+: - o )
> [@](#):
>
> But “café” looks more chic. 🙂
It just looks like somebody trying too hard. 🙂 🙂
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/9 "2004-09-16T02:08:11Z")
Do you use résumé or resume when sending in a job application?
English has a tendency to strip accents off of the loan words it steals. (As the saying goes, “English doesn’t borrow from other languages - English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their
pockets for loose grammar.”) The words are then easier to remember, easier to write or type, and easier to pronounce since they don’t cause confusion.
You can use either cafe or café with impunity.
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### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2004, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/10 "2004-09-16T02:36:20Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#):
>
> Do you use résumé or resume when sending in a job application?
>
> …
>
> You can use either cafe or café with impunity.
Anybody using “résumé” does so _without_ impunity - do you really want to demonstrate to your prospective employer your wish to impose outdated values?
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### Author:  [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/11 "2004-09-16T03:02:41Z")
> [@Podkayne](#):
>
> In Windows, it’s Alt+130. I think you have to type the numbers on the number pad.
Actually, it’s Alt+232 or Alt+233 (depending on which direction you want the accent to go. **è** or **é**.)
(Alt+130 is the comma.)
And yes, you do have to use the numbers on the numeric pad.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/12 "2004-09-16T03:09:41Z")
On my computer, with IE 6.0 under Windows XP, Alt+130 gives the following: é
Alt+232 gives: Φ
Alt+233 gives: Θ
**GorillaMan** , 😕
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2004, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/13 "2004-09-16T05:03:58Z")
For the letter **é** :
Alt-130 is the ASCII code
Alt- **0** 233 is the ANSI code
Both will work in Windows applications, although in DOS, I believe only the ASCII code will work.
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2004, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/14 "2004-09-16T07:09:34Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#):
>
> English has a tendency to strip accents off of the loan words it steals.
And to use redundant prepositions. 🙂
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### Author:  [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2004, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/15 "2004-09-16T07:58:15Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#):
>
> Do you use résumé or resume when sending in a job application?
>
> English has a tendency to strip accents off of the loan words it steals. (As the saying goes, “English doesn’t borrow from other languages - English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their
> pockets for loose grammar.”) The words are then easier to remember, easier to write or type, and easier to pronounce since they don’t cause confusion.
>
> You can use either cafe or café with impunity.
I use Curriculum Vitae and not Curriculum Vitæ. It is not English that strips accents, rather it is people causing the language to evolve through incorrect usage of the written word. It may no longer be wrong to use cafe, it may indeed be easier to type without the accent, but if a quality dictionary such as the OED prefers café to cafe, does it not behove us to adopt the same until the situation is reversed?
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### Author:  [@MalFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MalFrog)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2004, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/16 "2004-09-16T07:58:44Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#):
>
> Do you use résumé or resume when sending in a job application?
Actually I use **Curriculum Vitae** since resume infers I want to ‘restart’ work.
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### Author:  [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2004, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/17 "2004-09-16T08:08:11Z")
Am I being whooshed?!? How the hell is anyone supposed to remember Alt + 3-digit numbers to get accents when there were 3 different combos for one mark? And only one was right?
How about an umlaut? (I’m not worried about missing the accent mark since you’ll all know what I meant anyway) Hmm…point was made right there. 😉
And what the hell were the previous 200+ Alt combos for?
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### Author:  [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2004, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/18 "2004-09-16T08:20:17Z")
You guys don’t have a ´ key on your keyboard? You strike ´, then e, and you get é.
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### Author:  [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2004, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/19 "2004-09-16T08:32:34Z")
`e
:dubious:
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### Author:  [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2004, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cafe-society/264607/20 "2004-09-16T08:34:30Z")
Hm. I just noticed that wasn’t the key you were referring to. Oops.
On closer inspection of my keyboard, it doesn’t seem I have that accent key though, so the point is moot anyway.
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