# Cain feared retribution for murdering his brother. Whom did he fear, exactly? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148 "2010-04-06T15:25:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/61 "2010-04-06T22:45:24Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Actually one of the things that stands out about the Old Testament stories is the attention that they pay to female characters, especially when compared to other works written in the same general time frame. For example, the authors of the Bible cared about the experiences and suffering of the maid Hagar after she was driven out of Abraham’s family. [See Genesis 16] That’s very different from, for instance, the _Iliad_, where the notion that Agamemnon’s slave girl might have feelings of her own is never considered. This is fatuous. First of all, all mythological literature has female characters that it’s “concerned about.” The Bible does it _less_ than most, and no it doesn’t 'stand out" for any particular regard for women. Just the opposite. Oh…and as for Homer, perhaps you forgot about a little piece named Helen, not to mention all the goddesses, Odysseus’s wife Penleope and a number of minor female characters who play prominent roles. Genesis isn’t “concerned” about Hagar, by the way. It uses her as a device in a tribal origin story. For the most part, the Bible treats women as chattel property. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/62 "2010-04-06T22:47:25Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > :eek: > > Wow. That’s, like, witnessing in reverse. Not at all. It just means that when some religious person tells you that you should love your brother, it’s meant literally. Which is to say, _carnally_. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/63 "2010-04-06T22:47:56Z")
The actual answer to the OP is that it’s just a plot hole. All explanations are fanwanks. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/64 "2010-04-06T22:53:13Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Not at all. It just means that when some religious person tells you that you should love your brother, it’s meant literally. > > Which is to say, _carnally_. It is also meant literally between believing spouses who are either brother/sister or son/mother. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/65 "2010-04-06T22:57:10Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > It is also meant literally between believing spouses who are either brother/sister or son/mother. And concubines. Don’t forget the concubines. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/66 "2010-04-06T23:05:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The actual answer to the OP is that it’s just a plot hole. All explanations are fanwanks. That only exposes your refusal to actually read the OP. I explicitly state that I judge all of Genesis to be a a myth with less basis in history than Buffy the Vampire Slayer. _The OP asks what people raised as Christians were taught._ ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/67 "2010-04-07T00:29:30Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > You haven’t cited that Cane was fearful, just vexed and then overwhelmed by the decision God put on him. The Biblical account says that he was concerned about retribution (“I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.”) Whether he was fearful or stoic in the face of this situation doesn’t change the basic question of who this “every one” might be. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/68 "2010-04-07T01:55:56Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > And concubines. Don’t forget the concubines. Yes, them too, though I’m still not sure what a concubine is, though it sounds like a animal similar to a porcupine. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/69 "2010-04-07T02:04:44Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The Biblical account says that he was concerned about retribution (“I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.”) Whether he was fearful or stoic in the face of this situation doesn’t change the basic question of who this “every one” might be. Yea, I can see how knowing how anyone he will see will slay him could lead to fear. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/70 "2010-04-07T02:07:39Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Yes, them too, though I’m still not sure what a concubine is, though it sounds like a animal similar to a porcupine. A concubine is a mistress or an unmarried woman who otherwise performs the “wifely duties.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/71 "2010-04-07T02:20:39Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Yea, I can see how knowing how anyone he will see will slay him could lead to fear. But the only other people alive at the time were his own parents. A concubine is just a fancy name for a live-in girlfriend, by the way. In the Biblical context, they were women in the king’s harem to whom he was not married. David and Solomon both had tons of them. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/72 "2010-04-07T02:25:07Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I was taught incest. I see. And did the surgeon general resign as a result? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/73 "2010-04-07T02:42:04Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > A concubine is a mistress or an unmarried woman who otherwise performs the “wifely duties.” Actually the definition has more to do with a woman of lower social status then the man to the point that a marriage would not be ‘allowed’. It is the man accepting her as his wife though society will not. No I didn’t know this till a few minutes ago, but this definition fits perfectly in scriptures, the man accepts the woman fully out of Love, regardless of her status. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/74 "2010-04-07T02:44:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > But the only other people alive at the time were his own parents. I do not believe this to be the case, an example is the story of Lilith, also the Nephilium come from another line then strictly Adam and Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/75 "2010-04-07T02:48:30Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I do not believe this to be the case, an example is the story of Lilith, also the Nephilium come from another line then strictly Adam and Eve. Can we please stick to the story as it is written in the Bible, for simplicity’s sake? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/76 "2010-04-07T02:49:52Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Actually the definition has more to do with a woman of lower social status then the man to the point that a marriage would not be ‘allowed’. It is the man accepting her as his wife though society will not. > > No I didn’t know this till a few minutes ago, but this definition fits perfectly in scriptures, the man accepts the woman fully out of Love, regardless of her status. This is an example of concubinage, not the definition, nor is it really the spirit expressed in the Bible. Essentially, they were sexual servants. Wives were political. Concubines were for sex. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/77 "2010-04-07T03:14:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Can we please stick to the story as it is written in the Bible, for simplicity’s sake? Can you at least read the Bible before you comment on it? OK I can let Lillith go, but the Nephilim is directly stated from the Bible ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/78 "2010-04-07T03:33:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ve never had a problem with Cain mating with a sister or niece (or great-great… niece) or understood why some people do. Neither do I, except for the part about them not existing. If people want to insist that it’s literal, I’m okay with making them live with it being comprehensive. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/79 "2010-04-07T03:53:09Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > :eek: > > Wow. That’s, like, witnessing in reverse. Suddenly I ask myself : Is kanicbird just a really really subtle skeptic all this time? Did the mask just slip, or was that a little flash of skin on purpose? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148/80 "2010-04-07T14:19:00Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Suddenly I ask myself : Is kanicbird just a really really subtle skeptic all this time? Did the mask just slip, or was that a little flash of skin on purpose? God is much greater that we were taught. What I was referring to was spouses are also brother and sister or even son and mother. [QUOTE=Matthew 22:30] At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. [/QUOTE] Commonly this is used to state that sex will be done away with, I believe that to be exactly wrong. God Loves us to Love each other and God Loves children. In this world we learn about connecting to people through marrying a single spouse, it is the restrictions He places on our lives so we learn to really connect to one. I believe that after we learn that, which does come through Jesus, and are in the Kingdom there is what we would call free, deep caring, Love, painless childbirth and children will be highly desired. We are not there yet and it can not exist in this world as it is till the curses are done away with but it is what is coming. The restrictions on Love come from the hardness of man’s heart and the influence of the enemy. We will all know and Love each other intensely. The angels are stars, as they have more children more stars will be born till the entire night sky is lit up IMHO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cain-feared-retribution-for-murdering-his-brother-whom-did-he-fear-exactly/535148.md?page=5)