# Cain's Definition of "Pro-Choice" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 22, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477 "2011-10-22T22:18:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/1 "2011-10-22T22:18:15Z")
This flip-flopping coward has topped himself when it comes to ridiculous mental gymnastics. He is on record as originally being in favor of a woman’s right to choose. However, now that he’s running for President and being confronted with that by the right wing base, he’s changing his tune. What he “meant” by “pro-choice” was really “pro-life”, and this is why: He believes it should be a crime to have an abortion; _no matter what._ However, if a woman _chooses_ to break that law and have an abortion (and subsequently suffer the legal consequences of such an action), well then _that_ is her choice. So when he said he was “pro-choice”, that was really what he meant. :smack: Are you fucking kidding me? This clown is taken seriously? And _leading_ the polls? I’m not sure what statement that makes of the Republican Party, and our country as a whole; but it’s abysmal whatever it may be. ETA: this should probably be put in “Elections”, I didn’t think of it when first posting. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/2 "2011-10-22T22:44:35Z")
Or the Pit. Or Great Debates. In fact, pretty much anywhere but here… ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/3 "2011-10-22T22:57:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Or the Pit. Or Great Debates. In fact, pretty much anywhere but here… May I borrow your username? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/4 "2011-10-22T23:37:51Z")
Sure. 🙂 I suppose we could call Cain pro-life, since he’s for putting women who have abortions in prison for life. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/5 "2011-10-22T23:49:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Sure. 🙂 > > I suppose we could call Cain pro-life, since he’s for putting women who have abortions in prison for life. Yeah, but it’d be their “choice” to have that illegal abortion. :rolleyes:lol So, if you are a woman who finds herself sitting in prison for the rest of her life because you would have suffered permanent injuries if you had brought your baby to term; don’t blame Hermain Cain; _ **blame yourself.** _ Blame yourself. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/6 "2011-10-23T03:31:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Or the Pit. Or Great Debates. In fact, pretty much anywhere but here… Yeah, I sent the mods a note so they can decide. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/7 "2011-10-23T03:45:58Z")
Moving to great debates from IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/8 "2011-10-23T05:18:47Z")
That’s why I’m voting for Abel. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/9 "2011-10-23T06:48:47Z")
I think Cain was very clear: He believes it’s a woman’s choice whether to have an abortion. He believes abortion should be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/10 "2011-10-23T07:42:21Z")
And I was reading the thread title in terms of the Book of Genesis, thinking Cain’s definition was “It’s my right to choose whether to kill my brother”. ---
**Author:** ![Dereknocue67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Dereknocue67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dereknocue67)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/11 "2011-10-23T08:34:38Z")
I think Cain was perfectly clear in his statement. What he is saying is, “I am a self promoting motivational speaker who wants to sell more of my books and have no serious interest in the highly unlikely event of becoming President but look at me on the national stage getting all of this free publicity!” ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/12 "2011-10-23T08:40:31Z")
He’s definitely pro-choice on murder, theft, rape, etc. then too, right? I mean, how could you not be? Obviously everyone has a choice as to whether to do these things, and, well, gee, we acknowledge that choice. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/13 "2011-10-23T16:33:06Z")
Can we have some cites to back up the OP’s claims? Not saying I know them to be wrong, it’s just that I think it’s bad debate strategy to make an unsupported claim. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/14 "2011-10-23T16:46:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can we have some cites to back up the OP’s claims? Not saying I know them to be wrong, it’s just that I think it’s bad debate strategy to make an unsupported claim. Watch this video. Starting at 3:45 is his abortion stance. Pretty clear right? Granted confusing John Stossel isn’t that hard, but it was ridiculous. ‘Women should be able to choose but the government should remove that choice.’ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/15 "2011-10-23T16:50:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can we have some cites to back up the OP’s claims? Not saying I know them to be wrong, it’s just that I think it’s bad debate strategy to make an unsupported claim. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/WELkanHrSqw/hqdefault.jpg "Herman Cain on Abortion") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WELkanHrSqw) ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/16 "2011-10-23T17:34:23Z")
That clip does not support what the OP asserted. Cain was certainly less clear than he could have been, but he did wrap it up with words to the effect that a woman should not be permitted legally to have an abortion, not even the “rape or incest” exception. Is this the clip that triggered the OP? Cause if it is, it’s a miss. I don’t see him backtracking on a prior position on abortion (though there’s a proud tradition of that on both sides of the aisle). I see him stepping on his own tongue and mangling his thoughts. I think he had a brain fart and the “big government is evil and should mind its own business” side of his cranium collided with the “no abortion is ever permitted” side. He communicated this horribly, but I don’t see the hypocrisy or waffling or whatever evil thing the OP saw–I never saw him back off of the position that no abortions, not for any reason, should be permitted. Unless there’s something more… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/17 "2011-10-23T17:36:07Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > That clip does not support what the OP asserted. Cain was certainly less clear than he could have been, but he did wrap it up with words to the effect that a woman should not be permitted legally to have an abortion, not even the “rape or incest” exception. > > Is this the clip that triggered the OP? Cause if it is, it’s a miss. I don’t see him backtracking on a prior position on abortion (though there’s a proud tradition of that on both sides of the aisle). I see him stepping on his own tongue and mangling his thoughts. I think he had a brain fart and the “big government is evil and should mind its own business” side of his cranium collided with the “no abortion is ever permitted” side. He communicated this horribly, but I don’t see the hypocrisy or waffling or whatever evil thing the OP saw–I never saw him back off of the position that no abortions, not for any reason, should be permitted. Unless there’s something more… Can’t watch the video now, but didn’t he say it should be the family’s choice? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/18 "2011-10-23T17:38:12Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Can’t watch the video now, but didn’t he say it should be the family’s choice? If he did, I missed it. He did a shitty job of explaining himself, but I never heard him come to any conclusion that was something other than, “no abortions, not for any reason.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/19 "2011-10-23T17:54:00Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > That clip does not support what the OP asserted. Cain was certainly less clear than he could have been, but he did wrap it up with words to the effect that a woman should not be permitted legally to have an abortion, not even the “rape or incest” exception. > > Is this the clip that triggered the OP? Cause if it is, it’s a miss. I don’t see him backtracking on a prior position on abortion (though there’s a proud tradition of that on both sides of the aisle). I see him stepping on his own tongue and mangling his thoughts. I think he had a brain fart and the “big government is evil and should mind its own business” side of his cranium collided with the “no abortion is ever permitted” side. He communicated this horribly, but I don’t see the hypocrisy or waffling or whatever evil thing the OP saw–I never saw him back off of the position that no abortions, not for any reason, should be permitted. Unless there’s something more… Agreed. That doesn’t show that he was once pro-choice but changed his stance when he started running for president. It shows that he’s oblivious to what it means to make something illegal but still allow a person to “choose” it. It shows that he’s at least a little nutty in his political views and/or his ability to express them. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/20 "2011-10-23T17:58:20Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > If he did, I missed it. He did a shitty job of explaining himself, but I never heard him come to any conclusion that was something other than, “no abortions, not for any reason.” I found a transcript online: > [@](#): > > Cain: I’m pro-life from conception, yes. > > Stossel: Any cases where it should be legal? > > Cain: I don’t think government should make that decision. > > Stossel: People should be free to abort a baby? > > Cain: I support life from conception. No, people shouldn’t just be free to abort because if we don’t protect the sanctity of life from conception, we will also start to play God relative to life at the end of life. > > Stossel: So I’m confused on what your position is. > > Cain: My position is I’m pro-life. Period. > > Stossel: If a woman is raped, she should not be allowed to end the pregnancy? > > Cain: That’s her choice. That is not government’s choice. I support life from conception. > > Stossel: So abortion should be legal? > > Cain: No, abortion should not be legal. I believe in the sanctity of life. > > Stossel: I’m not getting it. I’m not understanding it. If it’s her choice, that means it’s legal. > > Cain: No. I don’t believe a woman should have an abortion. Does that help to clear it up? > > Stossel: Even if she is raped? > > Cain: Even if she is raped or the victim of incest because there are other options. We must protect the sanctity of life and I have always believed that. Real clear. The emphasis is mine, I put the nonsense in red. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477.md?page=2)