# Cain's Definition of "Pro-Choice" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 22, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477 "2011-10-22T22:18:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/21 "2011-10-23T18:06:18Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I found a transcript online: > The emphasis is mine, I put the nonsense in red. Yes, the red lines are where he displayed some incoherence. But look at the follow-up, the very next comments after the highlighted ones. Anywhere that Stossel questioned him (as he should have; Cain’s thoughts were very poorly expressed), Cain ultimately provided an unambiguous, “no abortions for any reason” conclusion. Seriously, does anyone believe that Cain simultaneously believes that a woman has the right to choose and that abortion should be without exception illegal? He did a terrible job explaining his position and created unnecessary confusion. But I don’t see him repudiating a prior position. We may be in violent agreement here, I’m not sure. He did a shitty job expressing himself. But I don’t see hypocrisy or waffling. I see someone stepping on his own tongue. ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/22 "2011-10-23T18:15:27Z")
Here is an [article from a 2004 Senate runoff race](http://new.accessnorthga.com/detail.php?n=172858), Cain’s position then was: > [@](#): > > Cain says his conservative credentials are impeccable. For example, he holds the position that, unless a mother’s life is threatened, all abortions should be illegal \_ even if a woman became pregnant through rape or incest. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/23 "2011-10-23T18:15:53Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Seriously, does anyone believe that Cain simultaneously believes that a woman has the right to choose and that abortion should be without exception illegal? You’re probably right about what he meant, but honestly, with this guy I’m not prepared to entirely rule out this possibility. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/24 "2011-10-23T18:15:57Z")
I agree that he comes off as a dingbat in that interview. But the OP is claiming he once was pro-choice, and then changed his stance when he decided to run for president. I don’t know if that is true or not, but can someone substantiate it? Otherwise, we’re just debating something the OP made up. I know it’s popular on this MB to bash Republicans. But can we at least bash them for things they actually do, and not things that people make up about them? So far in this thread we have established that he is a babbling fool in the subject of abortion. I’m on board with that. But is he a “flip-flopping coward” on the subject, per the OP? Can’t say I’m seeing that. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/25 "2011-10-23T18:28:29Z")
I don’t know, actually it is close to my position. I tend to see abortion as one more case of bumping somebody off because they are inconvenient. I like the mantra of ‘‘safe, legal, and rare’’. However I fear too many are much more concerned about the first 2 than the third. Too many others would like to restrict abortion without giving women better options or helping them avoid unwanted pregnancies. I view abortion as a problem, not a solution. The solution is in people’s hearts, not Washington DC. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/26 "2011-10-23T21:38:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I agree that he comes off as a dingbat in that interview. But the OP is claiming he once was pro-choice, and then changed his stance when he decided to run for president. I don’t know if that is true or not, but can someone substantiate it? If there’s confusion, it’s Cain’s fault. On October 17 (after the Stossel interview) [he said he was pro-life but didn’t think it was the government’s place to tell people what to do](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/post/herman-cain-on-abortion-pro-choice-and-pro-life/2011/10/19/gIQADJGczL_blog.html): > [@](#): > > “It gets down to that family. And whatever they decide, they decide. I shouldn’t try to tell them what decision to make for such a sensitive decision,” Cain said. > > Morgan then pressed Cain on the issue, asking if as president, his views would be a “directive.” > > “I can have an opinion on an issue without it being a directive on the nation,” he said. “The government shouldn’t be trying to tell people everything to do, especially when it comes to a social decision that they need to make.” That’s consistent with his position that women should have the choice between not having an abortion and prison; it’s just that said position is so fucking stupid that the OP didn’t realize he actually meant what he was saying. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/27 "2011-10-23T21:45:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If there’s confusion, it’s Cain’s fault. On October 17 (after the Stossel interview) [he said he was pro-life but didn’t think it was the government’s place to tell people what to do](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/post/herman-cain-on-abortion-pro-choice-and-pro-life/2011/10/19/gIQADJGczL_blog.html): > > That’s consistent with his position that women should have the choice between not having an abortion and prison; it’s just that said position is so fucking stupid that the OP didn’t realize he actually meant what he was saying. That just adds to the confusion, and damn you for making me go to his web site. 🙂 I found this on the first page: > [@](#): > > Cain’s View on Abortion Policy > > "Yesterday in an interview with Piers Morgan on CNN, I was asked questions about abortion policy and the role of the President. > > I understood the thrust of the question to ask whether that I, as president, would simply “order” people to not seek an abortion. > > My answer was focused on the role of the President. The President has no constitutional authority to order any such action by anyone. That was the point I was trying to convey. > > As to my political policy view on abortion, I am 100% pro-life. End of story. > > I will appoint judges who understand the original intent of the Constitution. Judges who are committed to rule of law know that the Constitution contains no right to take the life of unborn children. > > I will oppose government funding of abortion. I will veto any legislation that contains funds for Planned Parenthood. I will do everything that a President can do, consistent with his constitutional role, to advance the culture of life." Sounds like, at “best”, he thinks it should be decided by the states. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/28 "2011-10-23T22:05:41Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > I don’t know, actually it is close to my position. I tend to see abortion as one more case of bumping somebody off because they are inconvenient. I like the mantra of ‘‘safe, legal, and rare’’. However I fear too many are much more concerned about the first 2 than the third. You know that third trimester pregnancies are largely protected by Roe v. Wade, right? That decision allowed states to restrict abortions that were not for the life or health of the mother and occurred after fetus viability, which occurs between 24 and 28 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/29 "2011-10-23T22:19:45Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > You know that third trimester pregnancies are largely protected by Roe v. Wade, right? That decision allowed states to restrict abortions that were not for the life or health of the mother and occurred after fetus viability, which occurs between 24 and 28 weeks. (psstt…pretty sure he meant the third item in the list ‘legal safe and rare’, not the third trimester) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/30 "2011-10-23T23:26:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Sounds like, at “best”, he thinks it should be decided by the states. …and that he doesn’t really know how the presidency works. “I order you not to have an abortion! I order you to buy American!” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/31 "2011-10-23T23:33:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > …and that he doesn’t really know how the presidency works. “I order you not to have an abortion! I order you to buy American!” Actually, he does. He’s saying that, as president, he can’t do that. But that is a really weird way to dance around the question. He wants to overturn _Roe_, so he’s good with having some states outlawing abortion, but he’s also OK with the fact that the majority of states would not. That puts him outside the mainstream of the GOP primary field. I’m afraid, though, that it seems he really doesn’t understand the question. That is really scary, as it’s a very simple question. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/32 "2011-10-23T23:42:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He wants to overturn _Roe_, so he’s good with having some states outlawing abortion, but he’s also OK with the fact that the majority of states would not. Now he is backtracking that. He would [support an amendment banning abortion](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/23/herman-cain-abortion_n_1027391.html). He also thinks he would get to sign it, which isn’t how amendments are enacted, but he supports it. Cain has even less courage of conviction than Romney. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/33 "2011-10-23T23:52:02Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Now he is backtracking that. He would [support an amendment banning abortion](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/23/herman-cain-abortion_n_1027391.html). He also thinks he would get to sign it, which isn’t how amendments are enacted, but he supports it. That’a a really stupid mistake for a presidential candidate to make. But then, I never considered him a credible candidate, so it doesn’t completely surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/34 "2011-10-23T23:59:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > …and that he doesn’t really know how the presidency works. “I order you not to have an abortion! I order you to buy American!” I think that’s how he thinks executive orders work. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/35 "2011-10-24T00:25:20Z")
That doesn’t really make any more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/36 "2011-10-24T00:37:15Z")
You know you’re important when the opposition hangs on your every word. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/37 "2011-10-24T00:38:04Z")
Did someone hear something? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/38 "2011-10-24T00:41:56Z")
Someone who’s supposedly a serious presidential candidate is an important person?! I guess you scored some sort of points there, grats! Is this gonna turn into some sort of “I support him cause he riles up the libruls!” thing? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/39 "2011-10-24T00:46:27Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > You know you’re important when the opposition hangs on your every word. Of course he is important; if he is still viable, I plan to switch parties just to vote for him in the New Hampshire primary. If he is nominated, Obama will destroy him in the general election. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/40 "2011-10-24T01:09:45Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Someone who’s supposedly a serious presidential candidate is an important person?! I guess you scored some sort of points there, grats! > > Is this gonna turn into some sort of “I support him cause he riles up the libruls!” thing? This is exactly what happened with Sarah Palin in 2008. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477.md?page=3)