# Cain's Definition of "Pro-Choice" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 22, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477 "2011-10-22T22:18:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/61 "2011-10-24T05:20:54Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > The guy is leading some polls for the GOP primaries - when exactly would you like us to start paying attention to his policies? Well if you really want to get down to it Republicans would prefer you never pay attention to their policies and simply vote for them on faith. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/62 "2011-10-24T07:32:33Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > The true measure of how important a person you are is by the amount of attention you receive from the people who disagree with you. Nonsense. There’s SOME correlation there, but, to pick a very obvious example, there was a period of time shortly after her nomination when Sarah Palin was absolutely positively the most talked about person in US politics, by a huge margin. Didn’t mean she was more important than McCain, Obama, Biden, Bush (who was still president at the time), any of the congressional leadership, etc. Anthony Weiner was also talked about a fair bit a while back, didn’t make him important, just made him talkaboutworthy. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/63 "2011-10-24T08:46:04Z")
I heard one of the pundits say that Cain made the rookie Republican mistake of trying to remain ideologically consistent between his views on government intrusion into private lives on the one hand, and abortion on the other. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/64 "2011-10-24T10:44:28Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I heard one of the pundits say that Cain made the rookie Republican mistake of trying to remain ideologically consistent between his views on government intrusion into private lives on the one hand, and abortion on the other. Hey, that’s what I said! I’m a pundit! 😃 > [@John Mace](#): > > Except that is not all he said. It’s easy to take one phrase from the ramblings of a lunatic and make it sound like “simple English”. Exactly. What is the gotcha here? Is anyone disputing that he expressed himself incoherently? Do people really believe he wants abortion freedom for women? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/65 "2011-10-24T12:12:37Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > This flip-flopping coward has topped himself when it comes to ridiculous mental gymnastics. He is on record as originally being in favor of a woman’s right to choose. However, now that he’s running for President and being confronted with that by the right wing base, he’s changing his tune. > > What he “meant” by “pro-choice” was really “pro-life”, and this is why: He believes it should be a crime to have an abortion; _no matter what._ However, if a woman _chooses_ to break that law and have an abortion (and subsequently suffer the legal consequences of such an action), well then _that_ is her choice. > > So when he said he was “pro-choice”, that was really what he meant. :smack: > > Are you fucking kidding me? This clown is taken seriously? And _leading_ the polls? I’m not sure what statement that makes of the Republican Party, and our country as a whole; but it’s abysmal whatever it may be. > > ETA: this should probably be put in “Elections”, I didn’t think of it when first posting. I think, like many who call them selves pro-life, but don’t want to support a child once it is born,or care about the woman’s health,but worry about if there is a conception at the first day of intercourse,so won’t offer the woman the chance to prevent a pregnancy,(just in case); like Cain said in one interview I heard on TV, from conception to birth! He is just pro-birth like so many who don’t care about the child once it is born, and think giving a couple of dollars or some diapers they are doing their part. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/66 "2011-10-24T12:15:21Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > And I was reading the thread title in terms of the Book of Genesis, thinking Cain’s definition was “It’s my right to choose whether to kill my brother”. His brother was more than a fertile egg, he was a full grown man,and a part of society, not dependent on Eve’s body! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/67 "2011-10-24T12:23:47Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Clarity is not the problem, the internal logical consistency of his position is the problem. > > Not that this isn’t news, a Republican candidate is expected to: > > -Increase Defense Spending yet cut taxes > -Protect our citizen’s freedom yet wiretap/torture/hold indefinitely without trial anyone the government feels threatened by > -Deregulate banks yet make sure Mainstreet never again suffers from Wallstreet > -Support our Troops yet continue to keep them deployed in hostile lands > -Pro-life yet pro death penalty > -Combat what they see as intolerance for religious freedom for Christians yet keep their progress only for Christians > -Family values yet not a gay families values Amen! ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/68 "2011-10-24T15:11:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I suppose we could call Cain pro-life, since he’s for putting women who have abortions in prison for life. Cite, please? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/69 "2011-10-24T15:19:41Z")
OMIGOD! It all makes sense now. Cain is really a space alien, related to Kodos and Kang. He should have spelled his name Kain. Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/70 "2011-10-24T16:01:31Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Cite, please? 1. That was pretty obviously a joke. 2. Read the rest of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/71 "2011-10-24T20:09:00Z")
Ahem, **Annie** , post #52. And the problem with Cain’s interview there is that any given fragment of it _does_ have coherent meaning, but those fragments of coherent meaning are inconsistent with each other, making for an incoherent whole. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/72 "2011-10-24T21:25:52Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Logic that worked so well for Sarah Palin. The paid attention to Palin. They paid attention to Cain. But they also paid attention to Bozo the Clown. (After Sagan.) Remember when Pat Paulsen ran for president? Back then the joke didn’t do well in the actual polls. This year we had Trump and now Cain. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/73 "2011-10-24T21:39:24Z")
Cain’s confusion (or stupidity) about legality and choice contains shades of Donald Rumsfeld’s reasoning from a few years ago, when he equated freedom with the freedom to break the law: > [@](#): > > With virtually every government ministry here in flames, the city of Baghdad and indeed the entire country is now operating essentially without a government, with no services or police protection. > > The Bush administration appeared to have little prepared in the way of a quick response. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said in Washington “You cannot do everything instantaneously.” He added: **“It’s untidy. And freedom’s untidy. And free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes.”** We had a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=176777) about it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/74 "2011-10-24T21:54:03Z")
In an Orwellian way, I guess you could try to reconcile the of passing freedom-restricting laws with the idea that you’re still free because you’re still free to break those laws. It’s sort of juevenile, but it’s not above them. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/75 "2011-10-24T22:12:53Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Cain’s confusion (or stupidity) about legality and choice contains shades of Donald Rumsfeld’s reasoning from a few years ago, when he equated freedom with the freedom to break the law: We had a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=176777) about it. Ha. 5th post: > [@Rumsfeld's definition of freedom...](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfelds-definition-of-freedom/168226/5): > > It really burns your asses that this war is going, and has gone, so well, huh? Nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/76 "2011-10-25T06:22:02Z")
On Monday’s show, Rachel Maddow [had a pretty good bit about Cain](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908//vp/45025119#45025119) - his apparent obsession with numerology and the number 45 and his deeply confused stance on abortion. But the piece is worth watching for the bit tracing his connections to the Koch brothers. He was a skill for their “Americans For Prosperity” group, delivering their “Prosperity 101” lectures. It is 8:53 minutes in if you want to skip the stuff you already know. It draws from the AP article, but she’s making a lot more about it than anything else I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/77 "2011-10-25T07:01:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Actually, he does. He’s saying that, as president, he can’t do that. Well, yes, but it’s a little odd that he felt it necessary to make that clear, as I think most people are already aware of that fact. Makes me wonder what else he’s going to promise not to do. “I’m Herman Cain, and if elected president, you have my solemn oath that I will not consume the Sun.” > [@OMG a black conservative](#): > > Amazing the people who come out of the woodworks to seemingly try to find fault with something I type out. As it is, way to miss the point there. The true measure of how important a person you are is by the amount of attention you receive from the people who disagree with you. The more important you are perceived to be, the greater the attention they’ll give you. And vice versa for the less important you are perceived to be. Quite simple, really. By your logic, the most important candidate in the New York gubernatorial race last year was the Rent is Too Dam High guy. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/78 "2011-10-25T07:49:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > By your logic, the most important candidate in the New York gubernatorial race last year was the Rent is Too Dam High guy. [Definitely the most singable candidate.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg5SwyTvAHw&feature=channel_video_title) ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/79 "2011-10-25T13:02:54Z")
I hope this is okay with the thread,but if one just listens to Cain and hears 909 or 999,and they speak German, it can mean: nothing zero nothin or Nothing nothing nothing! ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477/80 "2011-10-25T22:31:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Makes me wonder what else he’s going to promise not to do. “I’m Herman Cain, and if elected president, you have my solemn oath that I will not consume the Sun.” Well… none of the other guys have promised not to consume the sun if elected. So, a vote for Cain is a vote against the sun getting consumed? I like the sun. I guess he’s got my vote then! 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cains-definition-of-pro-choice/600477.md?page=5)