# California "death penalty for sodomy" proposal could appear on ballot. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 21, 2015, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570 "2015-03-21T04:35:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/21 "2015-03-22T13:41:10Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I think that if this does make the ballot, we should all vote for it, to ensure that it passes. > [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > I kinda hope it passes for this very reason. I don’t think we should be so keen about this. Firstly, think of the psychological effect it will have on the LGBT citizens of California if that were to happen. You can’t distinguish hateful votes from “ironic” votes. Secondly, there’s sure to be some nutcase who would take the passage of the proposition as a license to go out and shoot some gay people. Edit: I guess what I’m saying is, LGBT people have suffered enough anxiety and persecution already. It would be wrong to add some more, even only briefly, for the sake of making a political point about the initiative process. ---
**Author:** ![Uhib\_D\_Jaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uhib_d_jaj/32/13448_2.png) [@Uhib\_D\_Jaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uhib_D_Jaj)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/22 "2015-03-22T14:12:15Z")
**Big T** - Yeah, that was the joke I was going for. Glad you caught it. As for the rest, I’m in agreement that this is aggravated asshattery by aggravated asshats. Hopefully enough people of goodwill and sense response and prevent this type of nonsense from becoming a tactic in other states/issues. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/23 "2015-03-22T14:13:55Z")
First, did anyone else notice the lawyers name? matt\_mcl… Second, this is clearly a result of the way that California allows any moronic thing on the ballot if they get enough signatures for it. And morons will sign anything. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/24 "2015-03-22T22:59:26Z")
The biggest (IMO) problem with the initiative process is that, too often, it requires that the bad guys are lazier than the good guys. Prop 8 (anti-SSM) passed in 2008 largely, in my estimation, because a black man was running for POTUS - and that drew out the non-white vote – especially the Hispanic (read: conservative RCC) vote. While they were there anyway, might as well vote the way the Church wants on the Prop. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/25 "2015-03-22T23:07:11Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > And let’s not forget Prop 65. I wonder if anyone in California history has refused to enter a building or buy a product because there was a Prop 65 warning on the door or shelf. Prop 65 was well intended but insanely stupid. It was a boon for sign makers though. An acquaintance of mine was out here visiting from NY. She saw one of those signs on a McDonald’s and thought that she was clever as hell by pointing it out to people walking in and posting about it on her Facebook page. “OMG. They admit that McDonald’s food causes CANCER and people eat there anywayz.” ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/26 "2015-03-23T07:13:28Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Prop 65 was well intended but insanely stupid. It was a boon for sign makers though. > > An acquaintance of mine was out here visiting from NY. She saw one of those signs on a McDonald’s and thought that she was clever as hell by pointing it out to people walking in and posting about it on her Facebook page. “OMG. They admit that McDonald’s food causes CANCER and people eat there anywayz.” Not only at places where you buy food. For some years now, every apartment where I’ve lived has had signs Prop 65 warning signs posted around the property. (Not necessarily a big boon for sign makers – they just write up a one-page Word document with the warning in large font and print a bunch of copies to hang on the walls.) Or else, it’s given as a page in our rental agreements. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/27 "2015-03-23T07:56:30Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Doesn’t _Lawrence v Texas_ preemptively invalidate any state’s putative so called anti-sodomy laws? Just on that basis, I think I would be okay with this getting on the ballot. There’d be no need to spend money campaigning against it, and it would be a free method of identifying homophobic derps, if any were derpish enough to campaign for it. _Lawrence_ was fairly narrow IIRC. It was ( I am willing to be corrected here) struck down because the statute only criminalised male homosexual conduct. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/28 "2015-03-23T11:16:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Ah, but you see, he already thought of that, which is why the text of the proposition states that it _can’t be overturned_. > > > [@](#): > > > > This law is effective immediately and shall not be rendered ineffective nor invalidated by any court, state or federal, until heard by a quorum of the Supreme Court of California consisting only of judges who are neither sodomites nor subject to disqualification hereunder. > > Flawless, right? 🙂 What are they going to do, make the judiciary bend and spread to make sure they are not sodomites? That will go over well… [URL=“[http://boards.straightdope.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/](http://boards.straightdope.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/)”] ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/29 "2015-03-23T13:12:21Z")
Sidebar for the non-Californians: Prop 65? A sign-making prop? ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/30 "2015-03-23T13:25:03Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Sidebar for the non-Californians: Prop 65? A sign-making prop? Proposition 65 was a ballot initiative that required businesses to post publicly viewable warnings if they had amounts of [these chemicals](http://oehha.ca.gov/prop65/prop65_list/files/P65single012315.pdf) present - things including alcohol, benzene, glass wool. > [@](#): > > Businesses are required to provide a “clear and reasonable” warning before knowingly and intentionally exposing anyone to a listed chemical. This warning can be given by a variety of means, such as by labeling a consumer product, posting signs at the workplace, distributing notices at a rental housing complex, or publishing notices in a newspaper. Once a chemical is listed, businesses have 12 months to comply with warning requirements. > > Proposition 65 also prohibits companies that do business within California from knowingly discharging listed chemicals into sources of drinking water. Once a chemical is listed, businesses have 20 months to comply with the discharge prohibition. > > Businesses with less than 10 employees and government agencies are exempt from Proposition 65’s warning requirements and prohibition on discharges into drinking water sources. Businesses are also exempt from the warning requirement and discharge prohibition if the exposures they cause are so low as to create no significant risk of cancer or birth defects or other reproductive harm. Health risks are explained in more detail below. [http://oehha.ca.gov/prop65/background/p65plain.html](http://oehha.ca.gov/prop65/background/p65plain.html) ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/31 "2015-03-23T14:38:06Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Sidebar for the non-Californians: Prop 65? A sign-making prop? > [@wevets](#): > > Proposition 65 was a ballot initiative that required businesses to post publicly viewable warnings if they had amounts of [these chemicals](http://oehha.ca.gov/prop65/prop65_list/files/P65single012315.pdf) present - things including alcohol, benzene, glass wool. And there is no penalty for posting an unnecessary Prop 65 warning. It also enabled anybody to sue businesses that failed to post signs even if the person bringing the suit had not been personally injured, creating legions of bounty hunters. So rather than risk a large fine or lawsuit for having a cleaner hidden in a supply closet somewhere, business operators just post the signs everywhere. They have become ubiquitous and useless for warning people of any real danger. For example, parking garages, airports, coffee shops and [even Disneyland](http://www.bobdorigojones.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/disney_sign-OCSmallBusiness.com_-300x186.jpg) have to display the signs. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/32 "2015-03-23T16:46:46Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > For example, parking garages, airports, coffee shops and [even Disneyland](http://www.bobdorigojones.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/disney_sign-OCSmallBusiness.com_-300x186.jpg) have to display the signs. Anywhere where there’s ethanol, methanol, or oral contraceptives! 😃 Prop 65 is a good example of poor implementation of laws through the initiative process - you can see why people voted for it, thinking they were doing good, but the details of the law made the warnings too ubiquitous, and they’re mostly (properly) ignored - you’re unlikely to inhale and accidentally expose yourself to oral contraceptives anywhere outside a manufacturing facility for those contraceptives. But California’s initiative process has been too frakked up for a while now. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/33 "2015-03-23T16:58:53Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Prop 8 (anti-SSM) passed in 2008 largely, in my estimation, because a black man was running for POTUS - and that drew out the non-white vote – especially the Hispanic (read: conservative RCC) vote. > While they were there anyway, might as well vote the way the Church wants on the Prop. If you added up all the black people who voted for Prop 8, and all the Hispanic people who voted for Prop 8, you’d end up with roughly half the number of white people who voted for Prop 8. The meme that Prop 8 only passed because dark-skinned people voted for it really needs to die. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/34 "2015-03-23T19:22:23Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > _Lawrence_ was fairly narrow IIRC. It was ( I am willing to be corrected here) struck down because the statute only criminalised male homosexual conduct. Actually, the majority opinion got five votes on equal protection grounds. There was one concurrent vote from Justice O’Connor, in which she agreed with the judgement but on the grounds that it only criminalized male conduct, rather than with the finding of error and overturning of _Bowers v. Hardwick_. [Cite.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas#O.27Connor.27s_concurrence) ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/35 "2015-03-24T04:42:57Z")
The list of chemicals on Prop. 65 (I had a Prop 65 sign in my garage at one point (no, not required)) was manipulated by the opponents - it was obvious that it would pass, so they added chemicals so the Prop cover just about every business. IIRC, there was an attempt to add a chemical used in water treatment facilities - yes, so the water company would have to warn you of the dangers of drinking tap water ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570/36 "2015-03-24T04:57:53Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I thought the lawyer was doing this as a kind of protest against how easy it is to make stupid changes to California’s constitution and laws via voter propositions. Am I wrong on that? You’re wrong on this. He’s officially crazy. He tried this back in 2004 with a proposition requiring that the Bible be used as a textbook in public schools. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-death-penalty-for-sodomy-proposal-could-appear-on-ballot/715570.md?page=1)