# California holiday help, please **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 6, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368 "2005-12-06T16:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/41 "2005-12-07T16:15:35Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > You can’t trust **Johnny** when it comes to food. He disses In 'n Out fries, fer Og’s sake! Every In-N-Out fry I’ve had has been excessively greasy. Worse, they’ve always been limp. I hate limp fries! And I’ve eaten at In-N-Out many times. By contrast, Fatburger’s fries have never been excessively greasy and they’re _always_ crisp. And you have a choice of skinny fries or fat fries. Fat fries are better. (Incidentally, YOKH’s chips are fat.) And Fatburger’s burgers are better too. In-N-Out burgers tend to get a little soggy. They’re not bad. Certainly better than Burger King. Just not as good as Fatburger. (See? I told you there’s a battle!) ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/42 "2005-12-07T16:26:33Z")
I’m glad someone started this thread, because My wife and I are planning a family trip to Southern California for this January. Thank you Jet Blue! We effectively have five days to spend touring, and Friday will be a short one. Do you Californians folks think this itinerary makes sense, from a fun perspective, and from a bang-for-your-buck perspective? One day in Knott’s Berry Farm One day in Universal Studios Hollywood One day in Legoland (near San Diego) One day at the La Brea Tar Pits, plus some other minor things in L.A., like the local science museum Still haven’t decided what to do with the other day. I’d have loved to take a studio tour or get into the Price is Right, but none of these places let kids under 18 in. A drive to Vegas or the Grand Canyon probably wouldn’t be worth it if we’ve only got one day unaccounted for…there seems to be plenty of stuff around to do that we don’t have to drive 5 hours for. And I’m not even considering Disneyland, because we were in Disney World last year, and I don’t see that the California version has anything the Orlando version lacks (am I wrong about this impression? Corrections are welcome). (By contrast, we did not visit Universal in Orlando.) I could consider Sea World San Diego if it’s significantly different from Sea World Orlando, which we went to last year. The San Diego Zoo is a possibility, and we like the sound of the model railroad museum in Balboa Park. Addressing the OP: three years ago, we toured San Francisco and Northern California and had a blast. The things we did included: The Drive-Through tree (in Leggett, CA) Old Faithful of California (in Calistoga) The Jelly Belly Jelly Bean factory tour (in Fairfield) Winchester Mystery House (in San Jose) Tech Museum of Innovation (also in San Jose) Monterey Bay Aquarium (in Monterey) Sequoia National Park Yosemite National Park Rapelling at Moaning Caverns (in Vallecito) Of course, getting around all these places would require a car. However, in San Francisco proper we: Drove down Lombard Street Took the ferry to Alcatraz and toured the prison Walked along Fisherman’s Wharf, which is touristy fun Rode a cable car back to our hotel Visited the Exploratorium Went on the Golden Gate bridge (though to be honest, I’m not sure what the big deal about it is) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/43 "2005-12-07T16:40:38Z")
**Cm** , do the San Diego Zoo. Well worth the trip. Skip Sea World…you’ve already seen one. The Tar Pits are really only worth a morning, maybe. Plan on having several things to do that day., or do that on Friday. The Farmer’s Market is always fun to wander around, or hit the beaches or watch the loons in Venice. Be sure to comparison-shop chili-dogs and hamburgers. That way you can see that In 'n Out is by far superior to Fatburger. Although both are so far above BurgerKing and the like as to be another dish entirely. By great dint of effort, I am restraining myself from launching a thunderbolt at **Johnny**. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/44 "2005-12-07T17:19:48Z")
Silenus: Thanks for the suggestions. Although, toward the end of your message, I get the impression that you didn’t realize WHY Friday will be short for me. Unless all the restaurants you’re talking about are Kosher. ;j ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/45 "2005-12-07T17:25:47Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Every In-N-Out fry I’ve had has been excessively greasy. Worse, they’ve always been limp. > (See? I told you there’s a battle!) _\>\>DMark takes off a glove, slaps Johnny L.A. on the face and challenges him to a duel\<\<_ I basically hate French fries, but the only place I will eat them is at In-N-Out - their fries are the best fries in the USA! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/46 "2005-12-07T17:42:00Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Silenus: > > Thanks for the suggestions. Although, toward the end of your message, I get the impression that you didn’t realize WHY Friday will be short for me. > > Unless all the restaurants you’re talking about are Kosher. ;j In that case, [Musso & Frank Grill](http://www.seeing-stars.com/Dine2/Musso&Frank.shtml) or [Canter’s](http://www.seeing-stars.com/Dine2/Canters.shtml). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/47 "2005-12-07T17:50:28Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > That way you can see that In 'n Out is by far superior to Fatburger. But both are inferior to **The Apple Pan**. Now THAT’S a burger. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/48 "2005-12-07T18:17:59Z")
> [@tiltypig](#): > > Even the touristy stuff can be fun. Fisherman’s Wharf should mostly be avoided but you should definitely go there to check out the docks full of honking, self-absorbed sea lions, and the Musee Mecanique full of penny arcade games from the turn of the century. Don’t eat at any of the restaurants on Fisherman’s Wharf. You will be able to find cheaper and better food elsewhere. If you go to Berkeley, you should eat at [Zachary’s Pizza](http://www.zacharys.com/) at least once. But be warned: no other pizza will ever seem as good to you afterward… The College Avenue location in Oakland is near Rockridge BART, and is in a nice neighborhood for walking around. Most of the restaurants on Telegraph Avenue (just south of the Berkeley campus) are aimed toward students and, IMO, not very good. There is better food on Shattuck Avenue, especially near Virginia Avenue in the Gourmet Ghetto. If you want to go to Alcatraz Island, it’s essential to make reservations in advance. A week in advance isn’t too long. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/49 "2005-12-07T18:28:16Z")
> [@tiltypig](#): > > Fisherman’s Wharf should mostly be avoided but you should definitely go there to check out the docks full of honking, self-absorbed sea lions, and the Musee Mecanique full of penny arcade games from the turn of the century. Unless something has changed in oh, the past 18 years since I was there last, Musee Mechanique is located at Land’s End. I remember it distinctly, although I was 12 at the time. Very cool. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/50 "2005-12-07T18:39:36Z")
> [@Hello Again](#): > > Unless something has changed in oh, the past 18 years since I was there last, Musee Mechanique is located at Land’s End. I remember it distinctly, although I was 12 at the time. Very cool. [The Musee Mechanique moved to Fisherman’s Wharf in 2002](http://www.museemechanique.org/). ---
**Author:** ![scout1222](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@scout1222](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scout1222)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/51 "2005-12-07T20:47:01Z")
> [@Fromage A Trois](#): > > Can anyone recommend any hotels, or locations I should look for hotels in? Because my girlfriend is a student, it’s likely that I’ll have to pay for most of this holiday, so I’m looking at good value 2, possibly 3 star places. Aircon a must - is that standard in US hotels? Someone recommended the Hotel Del in San Diego. The Hotel Del, while lovely, is definitely a high-end expensive hotel. You’ll maybe want to visit it, but I’m sure there’s a cheaper Holiday Inn or something you can stay in. In my experience air conditioning is standard in Los Angeles and San Diego. In fact, when I went to Seattle earlier this year and our hotel DIDN’T have A/C, I think it was the first time I can ever recall being in a US hotel that didn’t have it. So if you find a place without it, I’d be suspicious, unless it’s some cool bed and breakfast. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/52 "2005-12-07T21:15:13Z")
San Diego has several motels at Hotel Circle in Mission Valley off Interstate 8 at the intersection of Interstate 8 and Interstate 5. San Francisco’s motels are spread around. Get a map and find the area of town called “The Tenderloin” then book a room somewhere else. The Tenderloin is roughly the area surrounding the intersection of Post St. & Hyde St. LA hotels can be found all over, particularly by airports. Pick a place west of interstate 405. As you go east of 405, the neigborhoods tend to get more distressed. Things can get rough between Interstates 110 and 710. Things get better as you get closer to Interstate 605. East of 605 gets into more affluent Orange County type areas. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/53 "2005-12-07T21:37:14Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > LA is a huge, grimy, blob. :o > > San Diego knocks the pants off LA, unless you specifically want Disneyland, scummy Venice Beach, dirty overrated Hollywood, and the boring Queen Mary. . Or a decent selection of museums, so there. That’s one thing San Diego doesn’t knock the pants off of us in regard to. At the same time I have to agree that L.A. might not be such a good choice for the OP. Having lived here nearly all my life (I’ve lived in San Diego, too), I’ve come to the conclusion that it would probably strike most visitors as bewildering and unpleasant, just because it can be so hard to get around. Also, you have to live here to know where the worthwhile things are that _aren’t_ on the tourist circuit. Finally there’s the driving. I just remembered that they drive on the left in the UK; **Fromage** , have you ever driven outside the UK? How hard is it to learn to drive on the other side? If it’s hard at all, then I recommend staying away from L.A. unless there’s something specific that you feel you must do or see. ---
**Author:** ![tiltypig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dbc845/32.png) [@tiltypig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiltypig)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/54 "2005-12-07T22:29:32Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > _\>\>DMark takes off a glove, slaps Johnny L.A. on the face and challenges him to a duel\<\<_ > > I basically hate French fries, but the only place I will eat them is at In-N-Out - their fries are the best fries in the USA! Lining up on Johnny’s side of the fray here. In ‘n’ Out fries are anemic and bland, even when you ask for them well-done. The burgers are great, but the fries are meh. Jack in the Box, on the other hand, actually makes very good fries–they’re very crisp and golden, so I think they might double-fry them. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/55 "2005-12-07T22:43:38Z")
BTW there’s a Burger War are happeneing over [over here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=348414). ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/56 "2005-12-07T22:48:40Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > When I was a kid we used to go to a place called Rickey’s. I think it was on Balboa near Genessee (but I wasn’t old enough to drive at the time, so I don’t remember). By where the Home Depot shopping center is now? I used to go down there to hit up EZ Take Out Burger (there’s another great lunch destination, BTW, little hole-in-the-wall place but with a lot of business) when I lived in UC; I never noticed that place, but I bet with a little Googling we can solve the mystery. I haven’t done much searching but thus far I’ve found Rickey Henderson, Rickey’s in Novato (Bay Area), the Hyatt Rickey’s in Palo Alto, AMCC CEO David M. Rickey, etc… > [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > What about Picnic’n’Chicken (or however it’s spelled)? Doesn’t sound familiar. Neither does Blue Pearl or Organ Power, although I haven’t spent enough time on the PB restaurant scene as I should. Which reminds me of a FANTASTIC burger place on, IIRC, Newport Ave in Ocean Beach…Hoodie’s or something? Started with “Hoo”. They’ve got all kinds of license plates on the inside walls, if that helps anyone remember…it’s been a year or two. Big, big burgers. I think I’ve heard people talk about the Crepe Shop, but I’ve never been there either. I know where Filippi’s is, but only because I used to patronize a head shop next door (Visions, I think.) Shakey’s doesn’t sound familiar at all. Rubio’s is OK but they give pretty small servings these days. > [@silenus](#): > > But only adequate, unless you hit the original stand next to CalState San Diego FWIW, San Diego State University is the official nomenclature. > [@cmkeller](#): > > One day in Legoland (near San Diego) I live here, and I can’t think of a single person I know who’s gone there since it opened. That doesn’t mean much except that you probably won’t find San Diegans there, but I also remember most people who went when it opened were pretty disappointed. If you’re going to Carlsbad, shoot a little further and walk the beaches of San Diego. Hit Torrey Pines and La Jolla, then Mission Beach and Pacific Beach. Coronado’s fun but not worth spending all day to get there, especially if you’re not filthy rich. Don’t even think about staying at the Hotel Del unless you can afford to buy at least one of the hotels on the Hotel Circle in Mission Bay/Pt Loma/Mission Valley. While you’re in PB make sure to patronize Garnet Ave. and pick up an ice cream cone at Mr. Frosty’s, and/or check out Newport Ave. in OB–lots of cool little clothing and antique stores, and a great pizza place called New York Giant Pizza Co. or something; The Black is also fun, but be forewarned that it’s pretty much sex toys and drug toys. The actual beach in OB is OK but there’s not much point to going there unless you’re looking for drugs, and I presume you’re not. OK, reading further down your post, you’re bringing kids, so cross out the beach at OB and the Black. Hell, maybe you should cross out Newport and the whole OB area altogether. If you’re eating kosher, check out DZ Akins. It’s a little east of San Diego–I think it’s technically in La Mesa–but a great little Jewish deli and worth the drive if you don’t stay there too long that you can’t drive back ;j > [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Or a decent selection of museums, so there. Balboa Park holds its own, although I agree that it’s not quite the same. > [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > How hard is it to learn to drive on the other side? Left side, right side, doesn’t really matter–driving in LA is a bad idea unless you’re packing heat. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/57 "2005-12-07T23:04:07Z")
**Fromage** , what month are you coming? That really can be a factor. Personally, if you don’t drive in California, you are missing MANY, MANY, MANY beautiful things that you (and your gf) will NEVER see in the UK. Fly to either SF, LA or SD. Rent a car and make this circuit… SF to LA on highway 1/101. Do stuff recommended by the Dopers in LA. LA to SD on highway 1. Do more stuff recommended by the Dopers in SD. SD to Tahoe on I-15/US 395. (Vegas/Yosemite optional) I personally recommend the Sierras. Tahoe to SF (Yosemite optional) Do stuff recommended by the Dopers in SF. [Stock photos of California scenery.](http://www.enlightphoto.com/califgal.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/58 "2005-12-07T23:17:52Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > LA to SD on highway 1. Do more stuff recommended by the Dopers in SD. It should be noted that, although the 101 will get you into San Diego, it stops in Torrey Pines and turns into (I believe) Genesee Ave. You’re pretty much going to have to get on the 5 from there if you want to get anywhere…or just take the 5 from LA to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/59 "2005-12-07T23:21:46Z")
The 101 goes that far south? The 101 joins Interstate 5 in East LA, and I was unaware of it ever leaving it again. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368/60 "2005-12-07T23:25:05Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > The 101 goes that far south? The 101 joins Interstate 5 in East LA, and I was unaware of it ever leaving it again. I’ve never been on it. Once while I was incredibly lost on Genesee in Torrey Pines I saw that I was actually at an onramp to the 101, so I turned around. I didn’t know it came that far down, either. Regardless, the point stands that those hoping to see San Diego on the 101 are in for a surprise. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-holiday-help-please/334368.md?page=4)