# California - legal weed going on the ballot baby! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 26, 2010, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852 "2010-03-26T07:51:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/41 "2010-03-27T22:29:13Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Rather than one-horse towns that exist only as speed-traps, you could have one-horse towns that thrive off of DEA money and confiscated personal possessions and vehicles. Lake Havasu, Arizona is poised to become the richest town in the country. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/42 "2010-03-27T22:41:41Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > One of my professors is on the [International Narcotics Control Board](http://www.incb.org/). Iā€™m sure heā€™ll give us a little rant next Wednesday on this. I can guarantee already that it will not be positive. Heh. How concerned is the INCB about marijuana in particular, anyway? Not very much, I imagine. Have they displayed any urge to, say, hold the Dutch governmentā€™s feet to the fire for condoning pot use in their country? ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/43 "2010-03-27T23:19:16Z")
Here in PA we still have rather odd liqueur laws, so Iā€™m thinking we wonā€™t be legalizing weed anytime soon. But I would vote in favor of it and I then I would try it. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/44 "2010-03-27T23:31:13Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > Here in PA we still have rather odd liqueur laws, so Iā€™m thinking we wonā€™t be legalizing weed anytime soon. But I would vote in favor of it and I then I would try it. You can always come visit us in CA when we pass it. Besides the direct economic benefit of the taxation, people should be thinking about how huge this will be to our stateā€™s tourism industry. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/45 "2010-03-28T00:15:10Z")
The ā€œLegalize Gay Potā€ t-shirt needs an update on the back. ā€œā€¦and help get California back in the black.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/46 "2010-03-28T01:01:26Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > You can always come visit us in CA when we pass it. Besides the direct economic benefit of the taxation, people should be thinking about how huge this will be to our stateā€™s tourism industry. šŸ˜ƒ I think (based on several visits to the Netherlands) that if legalized there WILL actually be a sizeable amount of cannabis tourism, at least in the first few years. A lot of wealthy smokers will want to experience the novelty of legally herbing-up in the good olā€™ USA for the first time in their lives, and I imagine that there will be various music festivals and plenty of smaller, club-based shows (think a triple bill with Phish, Snoop Dogg and Willie Nelson) touting a pro-reefer atmosphere, where smoking will be encouraged but beer and other alcohol will not be sold (seriously). I donā€™t know if it will pass or not, but if so, I bet it will be a pretty good initial economic shot-in-the-arm for Californiaā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/47 "2010-03-28T01:04:46Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > The ā€œLegalize Gay Potā€ t-shirt needs an update on the back. > > ā€œā€¦and help get California back in the black.ā€ Once youā€™ve been in the black youā€™ll never go back! ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/48 "2010-03-28T05:28:01Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Well, mostly because of Carlyā€™s tendency to hire spies to go through the personal information of journalists and other people working for her. Iā€™d have to say thatā€™s really pretty damn bad. > > [http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-09-08/news/17309713\_1\_hewlett-packard-phone-records-social-security-numbers](http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-09-08/news/17309713_1_hewlett-packard-phone-records-social-security-numbers) Yeah, thatā€™s pretty damning ā€“ or would be, if it had occurred while she was at HP. Alas, the ā€œinvestigationā€ appears to have happened in 2005 - 2006, and Carly left in February 2005. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/49 "2010-03-28T16:08:40Z")
ā€¦and as Iā€™ve posted before, something the potheads donā€™t understand is that the steady Societal move towards a prohibition of cigarettes and smoking is going to converge hard on any pot legalization which might occur. my prediction is that about the time pot becomes as legal as cigarettes pot smokers will be relegated to smoking **only** in their homes, with all doors and windows shut, and with no children under 21, pets, or sensitive plants in the house. And anyone who thinks legalization will end drug running of pot hasnā€™t thought the process through. Instead of police resources to catch and convict drug dealers and smugglers for the legality of the drugs, it will be the same damn thing on the basis of tax evasion. So weā€™ll have the same tunnels under the border, the same stabbings and shootings, the same people sitting in jail pissing away the tax dollars and laughing in our faces. There may not even be less on an overall basis, only a proportional basis - more people who donā€™t smoke or donā€™t smoke much will probably get their pot from official, safe, tax-paid sources, but there will always be a significant group of people who want the cheapest pot possible and donā€™t want to grow it. And of course there will be the ā€œjoints laced with X, Y, or Zā€ sales as well. I can still remember three boys in 9th grade biology who stole formaldehyde from the class to dip their joints in it, claiming that it was ā€œsuperchargingā€ the pot (I have no idea what this does, and donā€™t care enough to Google, the point is, people are always going to fuck with the system). Donā€™t get me wrong; Iā€™m pro-legalization. But Iā€™m a realist who has a very poor opinion of basic human nature, based on all the fucked up people Iā€™ve known IRL and online. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/50 "2010-03-28T16:31:22Z")
How does one get around keeping people that operate heavy machinery for a living from smoking dope on their lunch breaks if thereā€™s no threat of random screens? I understand that to the responsible smoker that this is an issue due to the duration which THC stays in your body. To put it another way, If Joe and I worked in a warehouse together and smoked pot together after work and that was the only time we did it, Iā€™d be fine with Joe operating the forklift the next day. If I knew Joe was getting blitzed on his lunch break, I would no longer be OK with it. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/51 "2010-03-28T16:35:32Z")
The same way you deal with Joe pounding a 40 during his lunch break. Really, there will be little additional impact on things like that, Iā€™d wager. If someone is going to get fucked up on the job, theyā€™re doing it already. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/52 "2010-03-28T16:41:57Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > And anyone who thinks legalization will end drug running of pot hasnā€™t thought the process through. Instead of police resources to catch and convict drug dealers and smugglers for the legality of the drugs, it will be the same damn thing on the basis of tax evasion. So weā€™ll have the same tunnels under the border, the same stabbings and shootings, the same people sitting in jail pissing away the tax dollars and laughing in our faces. I donā€™t doubt that there will be some smuggling and tax-cheatery; after all, there is with alcohol and tobacco. But stabbings and shootings? Maybe in robberies but in smuggling? It doesnā€™t make a lot of sense to me unless the cost of legalized pot is truly unreasonable to the target market. I mean, I know of lots of folks who go out of their way to buy cigarettes on reservations to avoid sales tax, and who run over the state line to buy fireworks, and who sneak in a few bottles of hooch under the noses of customs (Iā€™ve done that myself, actually). But Iā€™d expect to see a reduction or at least a retooling of crime - itā€™ll just make more sense to trade in actual illegal drugs than to try to undercut a legal market. ---
**Author:** ![Nefarious\_Chipmunk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nefarious_chipmunk/32/1045_2.png) [@Nefarious\_Chipmunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nefarious_Chipmunk)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/53 "2010-03-28T16:46:30Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > How does one get around keeping people that operate heavy machinery for a living from smoking dope on their lunch breaks if thereā€™s no threat of random screens? > > I understand that to the responsible smoker that this is an issue due to the duration which THC stays in your body. > > To put it another way, If Joe and I worked in a warehouse together and smoked pot together after work and that was the only time we did it, Iā€™d be fine with Joe operating the forklift the next day. > > If I knew Joe was getting blitzed on his lunch break, I would no longer be OK with it. How do you know Joe isnā€™t shooting from his (completely legal, not randomly tested) whiskey flask? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/54 "2010-03-28T16:47:09Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > How does one get around keeping people that operate heavy machinery for a living from smoking dope on their lunch breaks if thereā€™s no threat of random screens? This problem exists right now - in fact, my first real Engineering job was due to an out-of-control union which **went on strike** to protest that people operating heavy machinery should not be fired for drug and/or alcohol use **while on the job.** :smack: Amazingly, the local liberal newspaper backed them up 110%, even after a serious accident occurred when a forklift driver drove his truck off of a loading dock while high, a man fell off a skylift while high, and employees were arrested for dealing drugs on the assembly line itself. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/55 "2010-03-28T16:49:54Z")
> [@heraldgwena](#): > > How do you know Joe isnā€™t shooting from his (completely legal, not randomly tested) whiskey flask? There is no legal right in the US to operate heavy machinery or dangerous/hazardous equipment while under the influence of intoxicating, narcotic, physically limiting, or coordination-limiting drugs or substances, even if they are legally prescribed by a whole clown car of doctors. Iā€™ve been through a lot of OSHA training on this, as well as ā€œsafe workplaceā€ legal training. Joe shouldnā€™t have ANY whiskey flask to be ā€œshooting fromā€, period, unless he has Coca-Cola in it. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/56 "2010-03-28T16:53:09Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > I donā€™t doubt that there will be some smuggling and tax-cheatery; after all, there is with alcohol and tobacco. But stabbings and shootings? Maybe in robberies but in smuggling? It doesnā€™t make a lot of sense to me unless the cost of legalized pot is truly unreasonable to the target market. My understanding is that the proposed taxes would be quite dear and thus drive this. Obviously, if the equivalent cost to get high is about the same as buying a 12-pack of Keystone Lite, then I concur that the risks of illegal production will be tremendously reduced, if not pretty much eliminated. My understanding was in the California tax that the average ā€œrecreationalā€ pot smoker would be paying $100 a month in tax, is that incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![Nefarious\_Chipmunk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nefarious_chipmunk/32/1045_2.png) [@Nefarious\_Chipmunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nefarious_Chipmunk)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/57 "2010-03-28T16:55:01Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > There is no legal right in the US to operate heavy machinery or dangerous/hazardous equipment while under the influence of intoxicating, narcotic, physically limiting, or coordination-limiting drugs or substances, even if they are legally prescribed by a whole clown car of doctors. Iā€™ve been through a lot of OSHA training on this, as well as ā€œsafe workplaceā€ legal training. Joe shouldnā€™t have ANY whiskey flask to be ā€œshooting fromā€, period, unless he has Coca-Cola in it. I realize that. I was merely pointing out that we arenā€™t testing for it randomly. It is generally assumed that Joe is being safe (unless there is an accident). We trust that part of Joeā€™s training and expertise as a heavy equipment operator would come into play and he wouldnā€™t drink. I believe the same would be true of smoking and people who imply otherwise bother me. The type of person who would smoke while operating heavy machinery is the same type of person who would drink. The type of person matters more then the substance. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/58 "2010-03-28T17:03:36Z")
The obvious difference in the two scenarios (at least, to me) is that alcohol use is more readily detectable (even if the person is an alcoholic and therefore has tolerance) due to its strong odor. Marijuana use is more easily masked (clear eyes, some body spray, etc) and doesnā€™t cause the same effects that alcohol use does. This is of course given that both scenarios involve a user of each drug that has a capability of striving to appear ā€œnormalā€ whilst stoned amongst the populace at large. ---
**Author:** ![Nefarious\_Chipmunk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nefarious_chipmunk/32/1045_2.png) [@Nefarious\_Chipmunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nefarious_Chipmunk)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/59 "2010-03-28T17:14:14Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > The obvious difference in the two scenarios (at least, to me) is that alcohol use is more readily detectable (even if the person is an alcoholic and therefore has tolerance) due to its strong odor. Marijuana use is more easily masked (clear eyes, some body spray, etc) and doesnā€™t cause the same effects that alcohol use does. > > This is of course given that both scenarios involve a user of each drug that has a capability of striving to appear ā€œnormalā€ whilst stoned amongst the populace at large. Personally, I find the smell of marijuana to be much more potent and hard to hide then the smell of alcohol. Alcohol, at least to a point, can be covered with a breath mint and/or certainly kinds of food just as easily as marijuana can be covered with body spray. I find that some people are very adept at hiding the fact that they have been drinking. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852/60 "2010-03-28T17:43:15Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Yeah, thatā€™s pretty damning ā€“ or would be, if it had occurred while she was at HP. Alas, the ā€œinvestigationā€ appears to have happened in 2005 - 2006, and Carly left in February 2005. Youā€™re right. It was Dunn. Carly _started_ the investigation, but it looks like Dunn did the illegal shit. > **[Hewlett-Packard spying scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_spying_scandal)** > > On September 5, 2006, Newsweek revealed that the general counsel of Hewlett-Packard, at the behest of HP chairwoman Patricia Dunn, had contracted a team of independent security experts to investigate board members and several journalists in order to identify the source of an information leak. In turn, those security experts recruited private investigators who used a spying technique known as pretexting. The pretexting involved investigators impersonating HP board members and nine journalis Pat... This does not mean Carly was a good CEO. [http://www.allbusiness.com/company-activities-management/company-structures-ownership/11674773-1.html](http://www.allbusiness.com/company-activities-management/company-structures-ownership/11674773-1.html) > **[Portfolio's Worst American CEOs of All Time](https://www.cnbc.com/2009/04/30/Portfolios-Worst-American-CEOs-of-All-Time.html?slide=3)** > > So how do today's corporate leaders stack up against the worst CEOs of all time? To answer that question, Portfolio.com assembled a panel of professors from top business schools, surveying them on records of CEOs who most effectively destroyed value... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-legal-weed-going-on-the-ballot-baby/533852.md?page=4)