# California power outage - can people use home generators? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 9, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546 "2019-10-09T19:38:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/21 "2019-10-10T12:46:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > People will be surprised at the rise in their natural gas bill. > > My generator was on for 5 days and the utility bill rose by over $60. It can add up quickly. It’s about 3 times more expensive than electricity from the utility. And that’s with natural gas. I ran the numbers and with gasoline it’s something like 10x more expensive in fuel alone. But it doesn’t happen that often. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/22 "2019-10-10T12:47:54Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > So instead of buying Generac natural gas generators, wouldn’t one of those propane fueled generators be more practical? Wired up with a single 30 amp external plug and an interlock kit? Stored in an outdoor storage shed with a battery tender on the starter battery and at least one spare battery somewhere? (even if the “spare” is just to buy and have in a bag near the generator the wrenches needed to pull a battery from one of your cars) It would be if natural gas supply is questionable. But if the natural gas is expected to flow natural gas is the way to go. It is both cheaper and effectively unlimited. ---
**Author:** ![Marion\_Morrison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@Marion\_Morrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marion_Morrison)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/23 "2019-10-10T12:58:29Z")
My cousin came back from the war and experienced brownouts every day @ 3PM at his shop. So he bought a surplus army platoon generator and had it wired into his shop. When the power went out, all he had to do was throw a lever. Everyone should have a backup generator. He eventually sold power to the power company. ---
**Author:** ![Marion\_Morrison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@Marion\_Morrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marion_Morrison)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/24 "2019-10-10T12:59:40Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > And that’s with natural gas. I ran the numbers and with gasoline it’s something like 10x more expensive in fuel alone. But it doesn’t happen that often. Never heard of a diesel generator? Derp! The one my cousin had was fired by a jet engine. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/25 "2019-10-10T14:01:25Z")
> [@Marion\_Morrison](#): > > Never heard of a diesel generator? Derp! > > The one my cousin had was fired by a jet engine. I looked into that, but it had a much higher cost up front, again gas seemed to work good, but I know that other fuels are better and diesel motors should last longer. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/26 "2019-10-10T14:11:23Z")
It is probably easiest (least costly) to have a natural gas generator certified for California emissions. Diesel probably is the hardest. For example, the propane generator listed by SamuelA in one of his previous posts does not ship to California. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/27 "2019-10-10T17:09:46Z")
Also propane has a 10 year storage life. Longer, even. Limiting factor is you can’t refill a propane tank more than 10 years old. Diesel and gasoline have much shorter storage lives. Also, the most common cause of small gasoline engine failure to start is residue from fuel clogging the carb. A second common failure is rusted out gas tanks. So propane generators are cheap but less durable, less likely to clog, and the fuel lasts for 10 years or longer. Seems to be the best choice for a backup generator. Low durability doesn’t matter for an engine you won’t run more than a few hundred hours total. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/28 "2019-10-10T17:46:40Z")
Years ago friend of mine came across a site that was selling surplus 10kw diesel generators for $2,000 which was cheap, even back then. As a railfan, I took one look and recognized where’d they come from instantly, a [refrigerator car](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a6/e4/4c/a6e44cabebf44437f8be82f83ba7c714.jpg). The square radiator at one end was unmistakable. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/29 "2019-10-10T17:51:49Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Also propane has a 10 year storage life. Longer, even. Limiting factor is you can’t refill a propane tank more than 10 years old. > > Diesel and gasoline have much shorter storage lives. > > Also, the most common cause of small gasoline engine failure to start is residue from fuel clogging the carb. A second common failure is rusted out gas tanks. > > So propane generators are cheap but less durable, less likely to clog, and the fuel lasts for 10 years or longer. Seems to be the best choice for a backup generator. Low durability doesn’t matter for an engine you won’t run more than a few hundred hours total. The problem with propane is the availability of fuel. Fine if one has propane service with a tank with 100’s of gallons hooked up ready to go, but if one is using BBQ tanks that gets a bit sketchy in terms of finding fuel, and those tanks don’t last all that long. However there are quite a bit of dual fuel generators now that can run on propane or gasoline. This way one can keep it on propane until the big one hits and then use what they can find. As for gasoline’s ability to go bad, it has been a concern of mine, not just for the generator, but the lawn mower, snowblower, etc. However I have found in practice that gasoline generally is stable enough that it has never been more than a minor annoyance. The real trouble has been the snow blower, which seems like every winter, the first time, I have to remove the carb bowl and use carb cleaner on it. It’s about 5 minutes extra per season. I don’t recall having anything but some rough idle for the other 2 which tends to clear up with good fuel. But I do use Stable fuel stabilizer at 2x the amount suggested, and buy ethanol free gas which is also 93 octane because that’s how the sell ethanol free gas here. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/30 "2019-10-10T18:04:01Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > What I figured you’d have to do is buy some of the larger outdoor propane bottles, like these: [https://www.amazon.com/Flame-King-YSN100a-Propane-Cylinder/dp/B07Q47ZGK4/](https://www.amazon.com/Flame-King-YSN100a-Propane-Cylinder/dp/B07Q47ZGK4/), and store them in a roofed but outdoor area on elevated concrete pads. (so they never sit in water and rust.) > > At 50% load, it’s 20 lbs of propane per 5.5 hours. So 87 pounds of propane per day. > > So 3 tanks would be enough for a 3-4 day power outage. For longer than that, you need a solar/battery system. (like a powerwall) No, you could get a larger propane tank. I use propane for heating and I have a 500 gallon tank which is filled to 80% so it holds 400 gallons of propane, which at 4.2 pounds per gallon equals 1680 pounds of propane. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/31 "2019-10-10T19:40:29Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The danger isn’t that the gas goes out, it’s that the lines are ruptured. We all have wrenches tied to the shutoff valve so that we can shut the gas off in the event of an earthquake first thing. > > Did not hear that gas was a problem during the fire, but I think it was dangerous in burned out houses. > And good old PG&E managed to blow up a neighborhood with gas without a fire. Yeah, been through a 9+ quake that ruptured everything. That’s why I mentioned it. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/32 "2019-10-10T20:27:05Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > No, you could get a larger propane tank. I use propane for heating and I have a 500 gallon tank which is filled to 80% so it holds 400 gallons of propane, which at 4.2 pounds per gallon equals 1680 pounds of propane. Sure, but what does that tank cost? 3 one hundred pound tanks, which are 4 days to a week of backup power generation, would be $500 with shipping or less. (hardware store might have some for less). Each tank holds about 23 gallons. Then the cost to fill the tanks is about $300. You have about $1200 in just propane and your tank has to be professionally installed. So the tank alone is what, $3k? Also propane is more expensive than natural gas. Depending on how north you are you might save money heating your place with electric heat pump mini splits (with electric baseboard heaters as supplemental heating for 1-3 days a year when it is below -18F). Though if your groundwater is cold it might be optimal to keep using a tankless outdoor propane heater (takagi makes some) and to buy a smaller propane tank when your present one fails. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/33 "2019-10-11T18:32:15Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Do natural gas pumping stations need grid power to run? I asked some gas utility guys this week and the answer is it depends. These were LDCs that didn’t do much pumping (that’s mostly at the transmission level), but some had experienced electricity-related problems. Apparently ERCOT and some As/NM/El Paso generators cut off power to their own suppliers back when the southwest got cold in 2011. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/34 "2019-10-11T19:22:05Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I asked some gas utility guys this week and the answer is it depends. These were LDCs that didn’t do much pumping (that’s mostly at the transmission level), but some had experienced electricity-related problems. Apparently ERCOT and some As/NM/El Paso generators cut off power to their own suppliers back when the southwest got cold in 2011. Meaning a brownout caused the power to the fuel supply pumping stations for the natural gas generators to be lost? That’s an interesting case of cascading system failure. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/35 "2019-10-11T21:49:35Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Meaning a brownout caused the power to the fuel supply pumping stations for the natural gas generators to be lost? That’s an interesting case of cascading system failure. I think so. I’ll see if I can find anything written because I’m curious how it went down. And I meant AZ, not As. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/36 "2019-10-11T22:03:55Z")
[https://www.nerc.com/pa/rrm/ea/Pages/February-2011-Southwest-Cold-Weather-Event.aspx](https://www.nerc.com/pa/rrm/ea/Pages/February-2011-Southwest-Cold-Weather-Event.aspx) I think this is the event but I didn’t see anything about the death spiral that the utility guys were describing. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/37 "2019-10-12T02:41:43Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > As for gasoline’s ability to go bad, it has been a concern of mine, not just for the generator, but the lawn mower, snowblower, etc… The real trouble has been the snow blower, which seems like every winter, the first time, I have to remove the carb bowl and use carb cleaner on it. It seems to vary a lot. I stopped using my snowblower 5 years ago due to my bad knees. I get the driveway plowed when I need it. A few weeks ago I was wondering how much current the snowblower’s electric start used so I hooked up my ammeter and give it a shot, not expecting it to start after 5 years. It fired instantly and ran fine. I did top up the tank with fresh fuel but it was half full of 5 year old gas. Sometimes you get lucky. My Onan 6500 watt genny is natural gas. Dennis ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/38 "2019-10-12T16:11:48Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Meaning a brownout caused the power to the fuel supply pumping stations for the natural gas generators to be lost? That’s an interesting case of cascading system failure. I believe it may have been a rolling blackout rather than a brown out. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/39 "2019-10-12T21:17:11Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > What if a lineman for the county was working on the line? And if it blows that stretch down south won’t ever stand the strain. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546/40 "2019-10-13T19:55:51Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > I suspect some are surprised at generator output levels. Most being sold at the big box stores may power a frig and a couple of lights, but not much more. More powerful units get expensive and larger. A related issue is fuel. When power goes out it does so for gas station gas pumps as well. Making matters worse is what homeowners here in California are being told…power could be out for a few days. Generators consume fuel and you’ll need a lot of it for several days. Storage of large amounts can be problematic on several levels. Something also to be aware of if you are using a generator to run your fridge is that it is likely to shorten the life of your compressor substantially. When the compressor starts up, it usually pulls quite a bit of power from the capacitance that is in the power lines. It uses much more power for those first fractions of a second than it does in normal operation. This is fine for grid power. What is not fine is when you are trying to power that with a generator. You don’t have capacitance of hundreds of miles of wire, you only have it of your house and what is hooked up. If the generator is not overpowered, if it is putting out just enough to power your fridge, then it will likely make it hard for the compressor to get up to speed, and wear it out prematurely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-power-outage-can-people-use-home-generators/841546.md?page=3)