# California primary election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 14, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217 "2016-04-14T20:17:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/81 "2016-06-06T04:07:29Z")
Bernie held his Sacramento rally at Bonney Field, which holds over 11,000 people. Hillary held her Sacramento rally today at Sacramento City College. I don’t know how many seats the college’s arena has, but surely not 11,000. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/82 "2016-06-06T11:38:21Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Bernie held his Sacramento rally at Bonney Field, which holds over 11,000 people. Hillary held her Sacramento rally today at Sacramento City College. I don’t know how many seats the college’s arena has, but surely not 11,000. I wonder how many people at Bernie’s rallies are following him around the state? He seems to have a cult like following, similar to people who used to follow the Grateful Dead or Phish from show to show. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/83 "2016-06-06T12:15:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Why do you keep saying that? I am not obliged to defend positions I do not hold. If you want to say that the indefensible actions of some people exonerate Trump, say it. I have said, and say again, that Trump bears some responsibility in this. What part of that do you disagree with? Let me see if I understand you’re position. It seems you’re saying that trump is somewhat responsible. If that is right, are you also saying that the violence is somewhat justified? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/84 "2016-06-06T13:31:13Z")
Normally, I’m a non-violent kind of guy. With Trump, it alters the scales for me. Imagine you were in Germany in the 1930s when Hitler was just starting to rise to power. Suppose the Germans had busted some chops at the early Hitler rallies? How many lives could have been saved if Hitler’s lies had been exposed and his followers dissuaded from supporting him by whatever means necessary? Trump is the most dangerous nominee in American history. I think very raucous protesting at his events and minor things like egg throwing are certainly warranted in Trump’s case. Under normal circumstances, yes I may disagree with what you say but defend your right to say it. In Trump’s case, no. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/85 "2016-06-06T13:43:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Let me see if I understand you’re position. It seems you’re saying that trump is somewhat responsible. If that is right, are you also saying that the violence is somewhat justified? Jumping up and down and yelling that Trump is a racist asshole is justified on the grounds that he is a racist asshole. Or is pretending to be one for some electoral advantage. But that only covers vocal opposition, which is equally protected under free speech. Violence is _not_ a form of speech, it is violence, and not permissible. Has Trump deliberately stoked racial animus? Yes. Does that make violent protest at his rallies more likely? Duh. Does that mean he bears _some_ responsibility for the violence he has provoked? Gee, I dunno, that’s a tough one, what do you think? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/86 "2016-06-06T13:57:39Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Normally, I’m a non-violent kind of guy. With Trump, it alters the scales for me. Imagine you were in Germany in the 1930s when Hitler was just starting to rise to power. Suppose the Germans had busted some chops at the early Hitler rallies? How many lives could have been saved if Hitler’s lies had been exposed and his followers dissuaded from supporting him by whatever means necessary? Trump is the most dangerous nominee in American history. I think very raucous protesting at his events and minor things like egg throwing are certainly warranted in Trump’s case. Under normal circumstances, yes I may disagree with what you say but defend your right to say it. In Trump’s case, no. These tactics only help Trump. They’re wrong morally, but they’re also wrong politically in terms of defeating him. Attacking Trump supporters physically in any way helps Trump’s campaign and hurts the effort to defeat him. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/87 "2016-06-06T14:59:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Does that mean he bears _some_ responsibility for the violence he has provoked? Gee, I dunno, that’s a tough one, what do you think? I think no. You think yes - you’ve said as much. His words are just so upsetting you think he’s responsible for crimes comitted against his supporters. Not even against Trump himself - people who support him. You think that Trump is so offensive that he is responsible for other people assaulting still other people who happen to support Trump. After that there’s no where else to go since what you’ve stated is really an up is down kind of position. Your worldview is so completely foreign you may as well be speaking another language. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Under normal circumstances, yes I may disagree with what you say but defend your right to say it. In Trump’s case, no. _I support free speech - unless it’s speech I really don’t like. In that case fuck those guys!_ ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/88 "2016-06-06T15:13:40Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Normally, I’m a non-violent kind of guy. With Trump, it alters the scales for me. Imagine you were in Germany in the 1930s when Hitler was just starting to rise to power. Suppose the Germans had busted some chops at the early Hitler rallies? How many lives could have been saved if Hitler’s lies had been exposed and his followers dissuaded from supporting him by whatever means necessary? Trump is the most dangerous nominee in American history. I think very raucous protesting at his events and minor things like egg throwing are certainly warranted in Trump’s case. Under normal circumstances, yes I may disagree with what you say but defend your right to say it. In Trump’s case, no. Then throw eggs at Trump, if you have the balls which I seriously doubt. Don’t surround a petite young women with a violent gang and batter her multiple times whose only crime was wearing a sports jersey with TRUMP on the back. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/89 "2016-06-06T15:23:45Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > _I support free speech - unless it’s speech I really don’t like. In that case fuck those guys!_ It’s not a question of “really don’t like”, it’s a matter of a man who threatens the continuation of the republic. Trump must not be allowed to become president. If Cruz were the nominee I would denounce the violence, but in the case of Trump I cannot. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/90 "2016-06-06T15:31:59Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It’s not a question of “really don’t like”, it’s a matter of a man who threatens the continuation of the republic. Trump must not be allowed to become president. If Cruz were the nominee I would denounce the violence, but in the case of Trump I cannot. So your position is: “Violence against innocent people is cool beans if I don’t like some other guys opinion.” What a very progressive position. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/91 "2016-06-06T15:37:17Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > So your position is: > > “Violence against innocent people is cool beans if I don’t like some other guys opinion.” > > What a very progressive position. No. I’m saying Trump must be defeated by any means necessary. If Trump supporters see violent outrage against their candidate, maybe just maybe they’ll wonder what it is about him that incites such wrath. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/92 "2016-06-06T15:37:28Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Normally, I’m a non-violent kind of guy. With Trump, it alters the scales for me. Imagine you were in Germany in the 1930s when Hitler was just starting to rise to power. Suppose the Germans had busted some chops at the early Hitler rallies? How many lives could have been saved if Hitler’s lies had been exposed and his followers dissuaded from supporting him by whatever means necessary? Trump is the most dangerous nominee in American history. I think very raucous protesting at his events and minor things like egg throwing are certainly warranted in Trump’s case. Under normal circumstances, yes I may disagree with what you say but defend your right to say it. In Trump’s case, no. If you really think so, please respond to the last paragraph in post #63. No takers so far. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/93 "2016-06-06T15:39:03Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > No. I’m saying Trump must be defeated by any means necessary. If Trump supporters see violent outrage against their candidate, maybe just maybe they’ll wonder what it is about him that incites such wrath. No doubt many Obama haters felt the same way in '08. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/94 "2016-06-06T15:40:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > No. I’m saying Trump must be defeated by any means necessary. If Trump supporters see violent outrage against their candidate, maybe just maybe they’ll wonder what it is about him that incites such wrath. Trump supporters already feel put-upon and victimized. You really think making them the target of mob violence is going to change their minds? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/95 "2016-06-06T15:43:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No doubt many Obama haters felt the same way in '08. They may have felt that way, but Obama did not pose a clear and present danger to the republic that Trump does. If he were to win, the nation ceases to exist. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/96 "2016-06-06T16:39:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > They may have felt that way, but Obama did not pose a clear and present danger to the republic that Trump does. If he were to win, the nation ceases to exist. So, what are you, personally, doing to make sure that doesn’t happen? How much of your personal safety are you willing to put at risk? Because, you know, the nation ceasing to exist is _no bueno_. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/97 "2016-06-06T16:47:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you really think so, please respond to the last paragraph in post #63. No takers so far. You can hardly blame someone for quailing before the prospect of taking on such a rhetorical and analytical juggernaut such as yourself! Only a foolish or egotistical person would have such self-regard! So, here I go… You’re question is stilted and constructed in such a way as to give maximum possible advantage to one issue and virtually demands we ignore any nuance or alternatives. It places the weight of the question entirely to one aspect, even demands that we give but one answer, one example of a statement that justifies violence. Does that mean we cannot consider the _overall_ effect of his rhetoric? Is it unfair to say that, taken in the round and as a whole, his stated positions are offensive? Even given our commitment to free speech, and the fact that such a commitment can be used to protect offensive and repulsive opinion…does he not have some responsibility? Can he not be held accountable for what he _didn’t_ say? Liike, just for instance, “My remarks about the judge were patently racist and offensive, and I withdraw those remarks and replace them with an abject apology.”. That’s what he should have said, that’s what he sure as fuck _didn’t_ say! You didn’t ask a fair question, but feel entitled to a fair answer? No fair! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/98 "2016-06-06T16:48:50Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > If he were to win, the nation ceases to exist. This statement is a joke, right? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/99 "2016-06-06T16:59:06Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > This statement is a joke, right? You may think so, but he has already telegraphed his contempt for the judicial branch in his racist rant about a judge. He’d have no trouble declaring martial law and suspending the Constitution and declaring himself dictator for life. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217/100 "2016-06-06T17:01:39Z")
**Bob** , the nation always ceases to exist every time it changes. I’m sending you a golfing glove, a bit sandy because that’s where I spent most of my golfing time. Still, useful for getting a good grip. With all due respect and unwavering affection…you need it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-primary-election/752217.md?page=6)