# California Prop 64 (Legal Recreational Marijuana, 2016 ed.) - how will you vote? And discussion. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 18, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174 "2016-07-18T01:46:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/1 "2016-07-18T01:46:40Z")
So here comes our second chance to legalize weed for everyone this November. Even though it failed in '12, I think it will pass this time thanks to the examples of Colorado/Oregon/Washington. Some resources: [LA Times Article](http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-recreational-marijuana-20160503-story.html) [Ballot initiative text](https://ballotpedia.org/California_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative,_Proposition_64_(2016)) > [@](#): > > A “yes” vote is a vote in favor of legalizing marijuana and hemp under state law and enacting certain sales and cultivation taxes. > > A “no” vote is a vote against legalizing marijuana and hemp under state law and enacting certain sales and cultivation taxes. > > The official ballot summary is as follows:[2] > > “Legalizes marijuana and hemp under state law. Designates state agencies to license and regulate marijuana industry. Imposes state excise tax on retail sales of marijuana equal to 15% of sales price, and state cultivation taxes on marijuana of $9.25 per ounce of flowers and $2.75 per ounce of leaves. Exempts medical marijuana from some taxation. Establishes packaging, labeling, advertising, and marketing standards and restrictions for marijuana products. Allows local regulation and taxation of marijuana. Prohibits marketing and advertising marijuana to minors. Authorizes resentencing and destruction of records for prior marijuana convictions.” I know I will be voting a hard yes. Although I’m still pissed that some employers can and will use the federal status as a basis for adverse employment decisions based on positive drug screens. But good on the states for what is essentially an act of open rebellion against this silly drug prohibition that has gone on far too long. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/2 "2016-07-18T01:52:55Z")
id be for it but its that last line about pot convictions that everyones gonna jump on … ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/3 "2016-07-18T01:55:11Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > id be for it but its that last line about pot convictions that everyones gonna jump on … Seems reasonable to me - it’s stupid enough that a lot of people have had their lives and careers ruined by those convictions in the first place, why keep punishing them for it? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/4 "2016-07-18T02:05:13Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > id be for it but its that last line about pot convictions that everyones gonna jump on … Why? You think that people who did something when it was illegal, should still be penalized when it is not? They were visionaries, and should be given a martyr’s medal! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/5 "2016-07-18T02:05:38Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > So here comes our second chance to legalize weed for everyone this November. Even though it failed in '12, I think it will pass this time thanks to the examples of Colorado/Oregon/Washington. Some resources: > > [LA Times Article](http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-recreational-marijuana-20160503-story.html) > > [Ballot initiative text](https://ballotpedia.org/California_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative,_Proposition_64_(2016)) > > I know I will be voting a hard yes. **Although I’m still pissed that some employers can and will use the federal status as a basis for adverse employment decisions based on positive drug screens.** But good on the states for what is essentially an act of open rebellion against this silly drug prohibition that has gone on far too long. If a company has a federal contract, they have no choice. There might be other situations where the federal laws can impact a company but that’s just guessing. Voting yes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/6 "2016-07-18T02:08:36Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > id be for it but its that last line about pot convictions that everyones gonna jump on … It says “authorizes resentencing” not “empty the prisons”. I’m a CA residence and I’ll be voting “yes”. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/7 "2016-07-18T03:16:12Z")
I’ll be voting no, but I don’t really care very strongly, and, anyway, I think it’s going to pass. I just don’t like marijuana. I don’t want my next-door neighbor smoking it, so that the smoke comes in my window. Medical marijuana has at least some humanitarian justification. Pot just for kicks? Hmph. I’m not in favor of it. Since they were polite enough to ask for my opinion, that’s what they’ll get. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/8 "2016-07-18T03:31:00Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I’ll be voting no, but I don’t really care very strongly, and, anyway, I think it’s going to pass. > > I just don’t like marijuana. I don’t want my next-door neighbor smoking it, so that the smoke comes in my window. > > Medical marijuana has at least some humanitarian justification. Pot just for kicks? Hmph. I’m not in favor of it. Since they were polite enough to ask for my opinion, that’s what they’ll get. There’s a huge number of non-smoking options. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/9 "2016-07-18T03:59:11Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I’ll be voting no, but I don’t really care very strongly, and, anyway, I think it’s going to pass. > > I just don’t like marijuana. I don’t want my next-door neighbor smoking it, so that the smoke comes in my window. > > Medical marijuana has at least some humanitarian justification. Pot just for kicks? Hmph. I’m not in favor of it. Since they were polite enough to ask for my opinion, that’s what they’ll get. Huh. I don’t like cigarettes. I don’t want my next-door neighbor smoking it so that the smoke comes in my window. But it never occurred to me that it should be outlawed for that reason. I mean, I’m thrilled that it’s not allowed in public places, actually, but in the privacy of your own home? In well-ventilated outdoor areas? Live and let live. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/10 "2016-07-18T04:34:47Z")
I’m a California resident, but not a US citizen. If i were a citizen, i’d be voting Yes. My wife is a citizen, and will definitely be voting Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/11 "2016-07-18T04:48:41Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Huh. I don’t like cigarettes. I don’t want my next-door neighbor smoking it so that the smoke comes in my window. But it never occurred to me > that it should be outlawed for that reason. I mean, I’m thrilled that it’s not allowed in public places, actually, but in the privacy of your own home? In well-ventilated outdoor areas? Live and let live. I haven’t been asked to vote to outlaw anything. If marijuana were legal here, and the ballot measure was to ban it, I probably would vote against the ban. But it’s not currently legal, and that’s fine with me. They’re asking, “Should it become legal?” I’m going to vote no. I’m not acting in any way to ban anything. I’m just not acting positively to legalize it. Also, alas, my neighbor’s apartment is not “well ventilated” with regard to mine. At this very moment, I’m very aware of what he’s cooking in his kitchen. If he were to light up a reefer, I’d be exposed to the smoke. As you say, “Live and let live,” and having to smell his smoke ain’t “letting live.” (I haven’t seen the text of the proposed law: are there protections against second-hand smoke exposure?) ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/12 "2016-07-18T05:00:24Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > So here comes our second chance to legalize weed for everyone this November. Even though it failed in '12, I think it will pass this time thanks to the examples of Colorado/Oregon/Washington. Self-correction: the first measure that failed was in '10 not '12 (doesn’t feel like it was that long ago). I also voted yes then and was surprised and disappointed that it didn’t pass. Maybe the fact that it wasn’t a presidential election year made a difference in the outcome. But if it does pass this time, I think it’s going to be monumental for the future of marijuana in the country. Our good, lovely neighbors in CO/OR/WA have proved that this policy works, and as far as I’m aware civilization there has not collapsed since they legalized recreational marijuana. But with California being the most populous state in the Union (by a pretty big margin), legalization here will mean the sweeping tide of legalization will have hit an irreversible point. It will get increasingly ridiculous for the holdout states to keep up their bans as more states follow suit and more tourists start bringing weed home. And hopefully, _hopefully_ we’ll see some change in federal law at that point (if not outright legalization then at the _very least_ a reclassification so it’s no longer Schedule I, to acknowledge medical use, which has been going on for quite a long time). Although I won’t be completely happy until we’ve achieved full-on, nationwide legalization. I’m hopeful that might happen by around 2040 or so. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/13 "2016-07-18T05:06:00Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > (I haven’t seen the text of the proposed law: are there protections against second-hand smoke exposure?) I included a link in the OP to the ballot initiative, which expands the full text [here](http://www.oag.ca.gov/system/files/initiatives/pdfs/15-0103%20%28Marijuana%29_1.pdf?). I find two references to “second hand” or “second-hand”: > [@](#): > > Chapter 20. Local Control > 26200. > (a) Nothing in this division shall be interpreted to supersede or limit the authority of a local > jurisdiction to adopt and enforce local ordinances to regulate businesses licensed under this > division, including, but not limited to, local zoning and land use requirements, business license > requirements, and requirements related to reducing exposure to second hand smoke, or to > completely prohibit the establishment or operation of one or more types of businesses licensed > under this division within the local jurisdiction. > > … > > Section 147.6 of the Labor Code is hereby added as follows: > 147.6. > (a) By March 1, 2018, the Division of Occupational Safety and Health shall convene an advisory > committee to evaluate whether there is a need to develop industry-specific regulations related to > the activities of licensees under Division 10 of the Business and Professions Code, including but > not limited to, whether specific requirements are needed to address exposure to second-hand > marijuana smoke by employees at facilities where on-site consumption of marijuana is permitted > under subdivision (d) of Section 26200 of the Business and Professions Code, and whether > specific requirements are needed to address the potential risks of combustion, inhalation, armed > robberies or repetitive strain injuries. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/14 "2016-07-18T05:25:54Z")
Hell yes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/15 "2016-07-18T05:34:03Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I haven’t been asked to vote to outlaw anything. If marijuana were legal here, and the ballot measure was to ban it, I probably would vote against the ban. > > But it’s not currently legal, and that’s fine with me. They’re asking, “Should it become legal?” I’m going to vote no. > > I’m not acting in any way to ban anything. I’m just not acting positively to legalize it. > > Also, alas, my neighbor’s apartment is not “well ventilated” with regard to mine. At this very moment, I’m very aware of what he’s cooking in his kitchen. If he were to light up a reefer, I’d be exposed to the smoke. As you say, “Live and let live,” and having to smell his smoke ain’t “letting live.” > > (I haven’t seen the text of the proposed law: are there protections against second-hand smoke exposure?) It’s already decriminalized. No one is going to be smoking it in their apartments after the vote to legalize who isn’t already doing it now. In fact, making it legal will probably reduce the times when people smoke it in their apartments. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/16 "2016-07-18T05:43:54Z")
Some interesting factoids from [https://ballotpedia.org/California\_Marijuana\_Legalization\_Initiative,_Proposition\_64_(2016)](https://ballotpedia.org/California_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative,_Proposition_64_(2016))here: Proponents have raised just over $6 million and spent $1.8 million. Opponents have raised $135k and spent $93k. A poll in February, granted a while ago, showed 60% in favor and 37% against. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/17 "2016-07-18T05:53:44Z")
I outsource my opinion to drug policy expert Mark Kleiman. [http://www.samefacts.com/2016/06/drug-policy/promoting-cannabis-use-disorder-in-california/](http://www.samefacts.com/2016/06/drug-policy/promoting-cannabis-use-disorder-in-california/) The price of weapons grade weed with 18% THC levels will plummet to about 15 cents every stoned hour - and keep dropping. That’s after taxes. Since 1992 cannabis use disorder has soared. Extrapolating from survey data, about 4 million Americans suffer from that (or enjoy it I suppose): diagnostic criteria follow: [INDENT][INDENT] …they’re using more frequently and in greater quantity than they intend to, they’ve tried and failed to cut back, and they find that cannabis use is interfering with other things they care about and causing conflict with significant others in their lives. [/INDENT][/INDENT] Expect more of that after this Proposition passes. The right sort of legalization would look something like this: [Considering Marijuana Legalization: Insights for Vermont and Other Jurisdictions | RAND](http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR864.html) Given a choice between the current medical marijuana system and legalization sponsored by Big Weed, guaranteed to undermine public health, I’ll take medical marijuana. I oppose Prop 64. (Kleiman apparently doesn’t like the allegedly corrupt medical marijuana system, but I haven’t read that argument.) ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Max](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9de053/32.png) [@Blue\_Max](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Max)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/18 "2016-07-18T06:56:15Z")
Voting Yes. I look forward to seeing an argument against Marijuana that doesn’t also apply to Alcohol. Its addictive? Its mind altering? Its not good for people’s health? It can cause people to associate with others who will give them other drugs? It causes people to be fired and industrial accidents? It was banned but caused criminal syndicates to make a giant pile of money? Lower Prices will cause people to use it more? === We are blowing many millions of dollars to protect people who may be hurting themselves from themselves. How does this make sense in a country for the people, by the people, run by we the people? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/19 "2016-07-18T07:35:36Z")
Well heroin isn’t as harmful or as addictive as tobacco, but that doesn’t mean it should be legal. Once the genie is out of the box, you can’t stuff him back in. Legalization, done wrong, is basically a guaranteed public health disaster given our highly skilled business class, adept in advertising, marketing, production, distribution and lobbying. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Max](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9de053/32.png) [@Blue\_Max](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Max)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174/20 "2016-07-18T07:56:23Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Well heroin isn’t as harmful or as addictive as tobacco, but that doesn’t mean it should be legal. Once the genie is out of the box, you can’t stuff him back in. Legalization, done wrong, is basically a guaranteed public health disaster given our highly skilled business class, adept in advertising, marketing, production, distribution and lobbying. Are we even thinking of Heroin correctly? [Strongly Recommended Viewing on Addiction](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao8L-0nSYzg) Criminalization hasn’t exactly worked in removing the scourge of drugs from our society over the past 40 years either. But to be frank, if the choice were between Al Capone and Budweiser, which one would you rather have in your country? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-prop-64-legal-recreational-marijuana-2016-ed-how-will-you-vote-and-discussion/760174.md?page=2)